Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!decwrl!orc!bbn!granite!mandel From: mandel@granite.cr.bull.com (Mark Mandel) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: SF get-together? Message-ID: <1990Feb12.225656.15167@granite.cr.bull.com> Date: 12 Feb 90 22:56:56 GMT References: <9002112033.AA07676@ccb.ucsf.EDU> Reply-To: mandel@granite.cr.bull.com (Mark Mandel) Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Inc. Lines: 11 In article <9002112033.AA07676@ccb.ucsf.EDU> robin@CCB.UCSF.EDU (Robin Colgrove) writes: > >from the vicinity of his belt, he pulls out a pager, glares at it, >and muttering unmentionables (how do you say these in Esperanto?), ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "figrumblante nedirendaj^ojn..." -- -- Mark Mandel (InterNet: Mandel@granite.cr.bull.com) /* My employer is not responsible for anything I say, do, think, or eat. */ Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!lll-winken!decwrl!shelby!lindy!news From: GE.LJB@forsythe.stanford.edu (Louis J Bookbinder) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: RE: WAR Message-ID: <8012@lindy.Stanford.EDU> Date: 13 Feb 90 01:46:15 GMT Sender: news@lindy.Stanford.EDU (News Service) Lines: 37 Nick Chopper clanks back in: "Anybody seen my ax? Ever since I got retro-flamed and fell into the fireplace, I haven't been able to find my ax! It was pretty distinctive: chrome-plated with the Oz O-Z (Z inscribed in a circle) in gold on the butt of the handle. Anybody help me?" No answer, probably because everybody is too busy jamming in the virtual n-tet just past the fireplace. Sighing, Nick clanks over to the bar and orders "Dupont Silicone-35, Mike", and puts a dollar (silver, naturally) on the bar. Then he wanders over past the n-tet to a group of sad-faced folks arguing about the psychic destruction of war. "Golly, I didn't realize that the mental casualty rate is so high! All the TV shows portray killer squads of tough, fast Americans who kill and get killed with nary a tear. They don't even cry when they get shot! How do they do that? They didn't show any of the Panama invasion force freaking out! Did any psychoses result from Grenada? "Actually, I was in the Air Farce in the SEA war. None of the zoomies were in any way affected by the butchery on the ground (which they were in no small way responsible for). Of course maybe the flyboys were bonkers to begin with. I escaped no crazier than when I went in, but with a lot more guilt. My little girl told me the other day that I had done a bad thing killing people in the war. I couldn't answer her. "I thank you, Ed, for sharing your memories of the Marines. It must be very painful. I don't know how you could stand it." He finishes off his silicone, gets up and clanks to the chalk line. "To terror - may it some day prevent more wars than it causes. And may we all learn the real cost of violent solutions." **CRASH** Nick Chopper - my opinion? dont ax! LB>- GE.LJB@Forsythe.stanford.edu Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hpfcso!daq From: daq@hpfcso.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: WAR Message-ID: <9060021@hpfcso.HP.COM> Date: 12 Feb 90 23:19:27 GMT References: <9060012@hpfcso.HP.COM> Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA Lines: 130 >> Well, I do not believe that the percentage of men whose "spirits >> are broken" is as high as you think. >According to Department of War data, 20% of all returning vets from WWII >required hospitalization for mental/emotional problems. >Also remember that only 20% of our troops in WWII were combat troops. Interesting. Perhaps I was wrong. >the '40s.) Now I don't buy the explaination that it's no support that >matters for vietnam vets. A DoD study of factors that were predictive >of which soldiers were likely to suffer from serious mental problems >after returning home found that when you corrected for factors like >percentage of men involved in direct combat and age of our soldiers that >there was no statistical difference between vietnam vets and vets of >(take your pick) WWI, WWII, or Korea. So while it's a popular explaination >that vietnam vets have suffered more than other vets because they lacked >support, it's not supported by the data. Also interesting, but perhaps not suprising. I imagine that the experience of WW2 was almost as brutal and nasty as Vietnam, and perhaps more so in some ways. >I find this sufficient evidence for my previous conclusions. >You may interpret it differently. I guess I am willing to grant that a large number of troops do have mental problems, but how great are these problems, after all, even people who do not experience war can have mental problems that require support. I would also be interested to know the exact percentage of COMBAT troops to require hospitalization for debilitating mental disorders. This is not to refute your point. I would just be curious. >> You seem to have reacted to my post as if I were saying war is good. >No. I didn't think you said that war was good. I thought that you >said that it was human nature to have wars. I'd react much the same way >if you said that it was human nature to have schizophrenia. >I object to the words "human nature" in these statements. >It's a part of human experience that our species is pretty [explative deletes] >persistant in having wars. >It's a part of human experience that schizophrenia is a pretty persistant >problem for our species as well. This is a curious point. Do wars come from aspects of the human condition that are generally considered normal or sane? I would think that most wars derive from some combination of several things, among these being: fear of the unknown, distrust of strangers, greed, the desire to defend what you are used to or love, and stubbornness. These are generally things that I would consider to be part of human nature. And, hence, I conclude that wars arise from human nature. We agreed that combat is probably against human nature, although just because it is unpleasant and damages the participants psychologically does not mean that it is not part of human nature to fight. For example, I am always doing and saying things that I feel badly about later. These things hurt me later, but that does not stop me from getting into situations that I do not like. Do you see what I mean? Human nature can, and in my opinion does, cause people to get themselves into situations that are damaging. >For me to say that either of these things were human nature implies that >they are a basic part of being a member of the species, that it's a >feeling/perception/experience that we all share. That we all are war-like >or that we all have the impulse to be warriors. But in fact we don't. Not necessarily. You might suggest that being kind or being social is part of human nature, but not all people are kind or social. And I would suggest that there MAY be a warlike nature in all of us. Many, if not most, people have some point at which they would fight. War is merely the extension of this to societies. >In fact most of us who do the actual fighting in wars suffer from mental >problems as a consequence. So most of us are not *by*nature* warriors. But humans are, by nature, suspicious of the unknown. They tend to fear what is not understood, and to want to defend what they understand and love. Humans are, by nature, greedy and selfish. Sure, not all people are this way, but enough are so that I think the generalizations are valid. Humans are also by nature kind and forgiving. But it is the war between these aspects of human nature that produce the cycles of war and peace that have existed throughout human history. >I do feel strongly about this. >I am angered that we have so many men locked up in psych wards whose >existance we do not acknowledge. >I am angry that we are encouraged to point fingers at ourselves for the >plight of vietnam vets. >I am angry that we've been lied to about the after-effects of war is on >those who fight. >You see, I think we will continue to glorify war as long as we don't take >a close look at what happens to the warriors... to the ones who serve in >combat... >And I think that as long as we glorify war we remain likely to engage in >it. I think I understand your feelings, but I am still cynical. I really do feel that war springs from something very fundamental in the human heart. I may not have argued very well for this, and I may be wrong, but I don't FEEL wrong. >None of this is intended to negate or contradict your concerns about >the current instability in Europe. > >I rather like what a French diplomat said when asked what he thought >about the prospects for a unified Germany. He said, "The French love >Germany. We love Germany so much that we wish there were three of them." Yes, and I hope I am wrong about all of this. Even if I grant that you are totally right and that war can eventually be expunged from the human system, I certainly do not feel that we have reached that point, nor do I feel that we are very close to reaching that point. > Diana Diana, thank you for your reply. I disagree with you on many points, but rest assured that I will consider your points many times in the future. Doug Path: mit-eddie!mit-amt!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hpfcso!daq From: daq@hpfcso.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh! Message-ID: <9060020@hpfcso.HP.COM> Date: 12 Feb 90 22:47:26 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA Lines: 1 Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgh! Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen From: davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Is anyone going? Message-ID: <479@sixhub.UUCP> Date: 12 Feb 90 03:43:27 GMT Reply-To: davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (bill davidsen) Distribution: alt Organization: *IX Public Access UNIX, Schenectady NY Lines: 7 Is anyone going to be at Boskone this coming weekend? -- bill davidsen - sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX davidsen@sixhub.uucp ...!uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen "Getting old is bad, but it beats the hell out of the alternative" -anon Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!agate!earthquake.Berkeley.EDU!gwh From: gwh@earthquake.Berkeley.EDU (George William Herbert) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrgh! Summary: Yeah, i know the feeling Message-ID: <1990Feb13.043552.26821@agate.berkeley.edu> Date: 13 Feb 90 04:35:52 GMT Sender: usenet@agate.berkeley.edu (USENET Administrator;;;;ZU44) Reply-To: gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU (George William Herbert) Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 8 In article <9060020@hpfcso.HP.COM> daq@hpfcso.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes: >Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrgh! I know the feeling. I'm going to establish a permanent table here; anyone who screams at least ten feet away for a good reason can get a free round over in my corner. I may take myself up on the offer if nobody else does. -maniac Path: mit-eddie!bloom-beacon!eru!luth!sunic!tut!ousrvr!news From: so-tvk@stekt.oulu.fi (Tommi V. Kaikkonen) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: short tale Message-ID: Date: 13 Feb 90 00:32:30 GMT References: Sender: news@ousrvr.oulu.fi Distribution: alt Organization: University of Oulu, Dept. of EE, Finland Lines: 36 In-reply-to: gilly@bucsf.bu.edu's message of Tue, 13 Feb 90 00:03:52 GM Somehow familiary looking figure stands up from a table where he has been sleeping for a long time. "Hey, Gilly, thanks for the funny story! I really liked that and it made me feel a bit more happy, just when I was going to sleep... erm to read to the two tests I have on friday..." His name is the same, and his voice, but the appearance is not quite the same it used to be. You can see slightly reddish beard and new eyeglasses on his face. "Well, I know I have not been talking anything for a month, but (*sigh*) there was too much to do -- to study and so on. Most of my time I spent setting up a working gateway between local fidonet and mail and news here in Oulu. Uh, or should I say, most of my time I have been speding on IRC again." He looks like searching some people from the place but then he gives up. "I hope all my old friends here have not forgotten me totally." Turning again to Gilly he continues. "Good stories are always worth of telling, my aunt is good in telling jokes. I always wanted to be like her, but well, I can only tell sad stories. Or if I am in good mood, I can tell just stories, but rarely I can make someone to laugh -- except myself (heehee)." Then he sits down again and begins to listen. -- .-._. mets{ uusiutuu palamalla .-._. you can break the habit .-._. .-._. ihminen on kuin puu .-._. and it can break you .-._. .-._. tarvitsee maata juurtua .-._. be stronger and believe .-._. Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!yale!cs.utexas.edu!usc!polyslo!jkusters From: jkusters@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (John A. Kusters, jr.) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Any Virtual Callahans? Keywords: MUDs, Callahans Message-ID: <25d7c8ee.47a0@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU> Date: 13 Feb 90 08:44:30 GMT Reply-To: jkusters@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU (John A. Kusters, jr.) Distribution: alt Organization: Cal Poly State University -- San Luis Obispo Lines: 6 So, are there any people here who are also MUD fans? If so, does anyone know if there is a virtual Callahans on any of the MUDs? If not, there should be..... Ataru (AKA John A. Kusters, jr.) -- ___------___ ------------------------------------------------------------ /____________\ "It's not safe out here! It's wonderous--with treasures to (__) || (__) satiate desires both subtle and gross...but it's not for \__<__>__/ _____________the timid." --Q, "Q Who"_______________________ Newsgroups: alt.callahans Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!chaos.cs.brandeis.edu!adam From: adam@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David C. Kaplowitz) Subject: Re: Not goodbye thankfully. In-Reply-To: jdh92@campus.swarthmore.edu's message of 12 Feb 90 19:52:18 GMT Message-ID: <1990Feb13.133307.26066@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> Organization: Brandeis University Computer Science Dept References: Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 13:33:07 GMT "TO CALLAHANS" "Uh, Tom, could you get me another one?" waving a brand new single "That one was mostly full ... Thanks." A toast like that is worth "wasting" bushmills. Traveler in Elephants. Dave -- Newsgroups: alt.callahans Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!chaos.cs.brandeis.edu!adam From: adam@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David C. Kaplowitz) Subject: Re: short tale In-Reply-To: gilly@bucsf.bu.edu's message of 12 Feb 90 17:19:59 GMT Message-ID: <1990Feb13.133747.26158@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> Organization: Brandeis University Computer Science Dept References: Distribution: alt Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 13:37:47 GMT "Talking of tickets, the head of the publicity department at Brandeis University was pulled over by a nice policeman for running a red light. When the cop asked "Do you know that you just went through a red light?" he replied afirmitively, so the patrolman followed up with "Then why did you do it?" "Brain spasm." Man in blue uniform thinks for a minute and then goes back to his car and drives off. Traveler in elephants, Dave --