Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!ash From: ash@pawl.rpi.edu (Arthur Hyun) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: a long neglected reply... Message-ID: <&+%#B1&@rpi.edu> Date: 22 Feb 90 00:38:27 GMT Distribution: alt Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY Lines: 112 Date: 3 Feb 90 08:06:04 GMT Subject: Re: The door opens... Arthur starts and looks dazed, as if just woken from a dream. He turns, looks around, and finally notices that someone had addressed him. "My deepest, most humble apologies, sir. I was lost in a dream world within for a moment... Without further delay, though, I respond: >> Not everyone can carry the weight of the world.... "REM" Can anyone? I'd be first that I attempt the impossible, however, I think it's better to strive for the seeming impossible, then to never attempt and to never achieve that which is merely very very very difficult. >is not the rose, but rather, my experience of the rose. Part of that beauty >is the pain of no longer experiencing the rose, for what would its beauty mean >to me, if i never lost it? It would become dull, and boring, and its beauty >would lose all meaning to me... >> I am willing to grant the reasonable nature of this argument, but I still >> have problems with it. I think that a great variety of beauty would >> prevent boredom without the necessity of brevity, and the pain associated >> with that brevity. I agree with that, however, there is a finite amount of beauty in the world, much as i would like to deny it. I'd like to think that such a great variety and access to it at every moment is what this non-Christian would call Heaven. >> Please forgive me, but I now delve into commentary that I think is >> useful, but may not be applicable to you. No need to ask forgiveness for being who you are... And, if you do that which is not you, then never ask for it, for you will never recieve it. >> Do not discount the value of controlled anger. I think that it >> is a mistake to attribute too much virtue to a lost love. I think >> that it is very rarely realistic to view a lost love as pure and >> innocent. Again, the specifics of your situation are not clear >> to me, but properly placed anger can be valuable. It can help you >> move on, and with perspective, you can realize that neither you >> nor she was perfect. But I think that anger is more realistic >> than resignation or altruism. I do not discount it, I merely feel no anger. I don't feel that she who is lost to me is overly virtuous, nor do I think she is pure or innocent. If fact, 'pure' is about as far from the top of my mind as words could get. Anger is more realistic, certainly, but I would rather strive for altruism then anger. >> In high school, I had a girlfriend who I really felt strongly about. >> I asked her to get serious, and she said no, because she was not >> ready for a serious relationship. Within a year, she was married. >> Go fucking figure. HOWEVER, in retrospect, I am GLAD it worked >> out that way, because I had dinner with her and her husband many >> years later, and I am GLAD I did not marry her. The years add >> perspective, and I realized that she was NOT my type. She had >> a lazy mind, she was very limited in experience and desire, and >> was a lame conversationalist. She WAS a person though, and I >> am glad she achieved happiness, but I am happy it was elsewhere. Don't forget: the years have done more to the both of you then to just add perspective... > "I have my own life to live now, and I will live it to the fullest I am >able. I will love others, someday, and I will be loved by another one day. >I live for that day, for there is little, if anything, else to live for." >> I think you are wrong. I love noone in the sense that you mean, and >> I am unloved in the same sense. But I am most definitely alive. >> And I have reasons to live. Explore the alternatives. "I can't claim to know exactly how I feel, but 'love' is a word that seems fitting. If you, sir, or anyone else in Callhans, or anyone else I have just the most mere connection with and the slightest excuse to be able to trus, ask me for a favour, you will have it. I do not feel put upon, yet I feel bound to help you in anyway I am able. I feel deeply concerned for you, although I've never met you and I likely never will. In fact, if you were to happen by my door in need of a place to stay, I will offer you my bed, my clothes, my food, and my chair. Of course, I wouldn't expect you to accept many of these things, but they are available to you. Why do I feel this way about even strangers, I cannot say, for I do not know. I merely feel what I feel. Mind you, what I have just said is not absolute, for I cannot help any- one else in the future if I give you so much so as to render myself without means. I have just as much responsibility for everyone else I know (and, of course, my own wellbeing) as I do for you. Is this 'love'? I call it by that name, and if someone feels it towards me, then I think they 'love' me. However, is it what others call love? I do not know.... "Thank you for the compliment for my little poem, and thank you for your poem. I'd respond, but I've absolutely no idea what I'd say in it.... "And thank you, Janelle, for that piece of encouragement and recognition. It is most humble recieved and appreciated, indeed, even needed." With that, Arthur turns and seats himself again and plays softly, providing a shelter for the wind tossed soul, and a path to memories long lost burried and forgotten. Soft airy notes float overhead, vaguely ominous yet comforting, like the moon gazing over two in love, sitting, watching, the sea. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- HOPE Starless, Moonless night, alone with Cold and Sorrow, waiting for the Sun. -- ----------------------+-----------------------+------------------------------- ash@pawl.rpi.edu | sammael@mts.rpi.edu | the.arthur@rpitsmts.BITNET ----------------------+-----------------------+------------------------------- Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!shelby!csli!cphoenix From: cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU (Chris Phoenix) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Love, and Lifelong Soulmates Message-ID: <12367@csli.Stanford.EDU> Date: 22 Feb 90 02:27:59 GMT References: <9060024@hpfcso.HP.COM> <|-!#5^|@rpi.edu> <15980@haddock.ima.isc.com> <1990Feb20.184153.9773@granite.cr.bull.com> Sender: cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU (Chris Phoenix) Reply-To: cphoenix@csli.stanford.edu (Chris Phoenix) Organization: Center for the Study of Language and Information, Stanford U. Lines: 28 In article <1990Feb20.184153.9773@granite.cr.bull.com> mwolf@granite.cr.bull.com (Mary-Anne Wolf) writes: >A female voice comes from the vicinity of the ceiling. > [Assuming I meet my soulmate, and there's potential for a relationship] >Even so, will I recognize the potential? Will he? Will he know that >I'm available? Will one of us make the first move? > >I don't even know what I'm looking for. I recently had a talk with one of my friends and her roommate about a similar subject. I had just met someone who I liked (as a friend) and enjoyed talking to, and was pretty sure she enjoyed talking to me. But we rarely saw each other. I asked them if there was any way to let this person know this. They agreed that there was no way to tell someone that I liked talking with them and so on, and said that with all of their friends, they had met randomly, and sometimes hadn't talked for months after meeting. My friend even said that if a guy she met at a party wanted to talk with her again, there was no way he could tell her this without scaring her away. I guess I'm asking the same question: If two people "should" get together, is there anything other than fate that says that they will? Even if they both want to? I know there's social rules and signals, but they don't always work. And what if you don't know them? -- Chris Phoenix | A harp is a nude piano. cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU | "More input! More input!" ...And I only kiss your shadow, I cannot see your hand, you're a stranger now unto me, lost in the dangling conversation, and the superficial sighs... Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hpfcso!daq From: daq@hpfcso.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: A toast, and Soulmates (more or less) Message-ID: <9060031@hpfcso.HP.COM> Date: 21 Feb 90 05:08:42 GMT References: <90051.091126TAG2@psuvm.psu.edu> Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA Lines: 56 >"This toast is for my brother, who is currently on a Navy destroyer somewhere >and who isn't yet aware that one of his drawings was sold at a recent sci-fi >con, his first 'pro' sale. Hey, bro, wherever you are, I'm proud of you,man. >To Andrew Gryn,then, the coolest brother I could have wished for!" (*crash*) Awesome! >comprehending something. Finally, he says to Taldin : "I admire your faith, >Unicorn. I'll confess to being on the cynical side of this discussion; it's a >matter of fear of rejection, more than anything else. Rejection by another, >leading to a confirmation of myself as unlovable, at least in my own eyes. No >risk = no rejection, just emptiness. I fear pain, and in running from it, I Oh good, an ally! Your post brings up an interesting point that I used to ponder a good deal. It seems that a great number of people look for love as a validation of their own worth. I think this is very common. The thought being, "This person loves me, so I must be ok." While I was guilty of this too, I always recognized it as a very foolish thing to do. What if things work out fine, and then the person is removed from your life somehow? I think that I came to the conclusion that it is VERY important to know yourself and feel somewhat validated by that knowledge before treading the fragile paths of love. >think. I've had the line 'Fear can only be conquered by Love' quoted to me. >I don't know. I think it comes down to being sure enough of oneself so that one >CAN risk. I'm not there yet; I pray that someday I will be. But then, I may >never be." Fear cannot be conquered. Just deal with it. But your are right about self confidence and risk. >"I wish I could believe what you say about Soulmates, Taldin, but it's easier > to lie in the shadows, despite the pain, than to risk. I've seen a lot of >people risk and get burned badly; it's not a pleasant sight. Balances... hmmm, >this reminds me of a dark song I know..." With that, the man pulls out his >guitar and starts singing... Yes, it is easier, and it is not a pretty sight. Please all of you forgive me for the next comment, but it is not pleasant to watch someone lose love when they are sure they will not see it for awhile. They can become, well, pathetic. I have seen it and done it, and I feel confident in what I say. When you are going throught it, you cannot be consoled, and when you see someone going through it you really want to say, "Look, there is nothing you can do, so you are just going to have to pick up your dignity and go on." >Wiping away a tear, Deepvoice is heard to mumble "Oh, well. I tried, anyway." >He pulls his cloak around him and slides into the shadows... Beleive me, it is not your last shot. I am very bad at locating new relationships, but even I get a shot every now and then. Just occupy your time with something else. Cynic Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!psuvax1!psuvm!emd101 From: EMD101@psuvm.psu.edu Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Soul food for some, bitter crumbs for others Message-ID: <90053.004717EMD101@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 22 Feb 90 05:47:17 GMT References: <7615@sdcc6.ucsd.edu> Organization: Penn State University Lines: 45 In article <7615@sdcc6.ucsd.edu>, secbh1@sdbio2.ucsd.edu (Lori Stahlman) says: (... a large and varied stack of pizzas is delivered, ostensibly for the n-tet. The delivery man appears to be Betsy Bo's kin ...) > >The musicians left their corners and came forward timidly, as >though none of them wanted to be first to dive on the box-clad >treasures. Patrons with twitching noses peeked from dim corners >like so many mice. Betsy Bo scowled behind the pages. > >"This is fine," said Oktave nonchalantly. "Thanks." > >"No problemo." He tipped his cap and winked at her. "Yo, >Bets!" > >He strode over to her table and draped himself over a chair. >The book did not drop from her face. "So...You going to pay for >these pizzas or what?" > (... and has most creatively turned her Schwinn into a hood ornament for his truck, outside in the parking lot. He sings. He is removed from the bar. Causal relationship implied.) Oktave gives Betsy Bo a rueful grin, then says something to Mike. The barkeep disappears behind the bar, then returns with a huge empty ceramic flowerpot, ugly and useful as the orange sweatshirt you wear when you paint the walls. "Pizza for the house," she announces. "I'm suggesting a dollar-per-slice donation. Maybe we can't fund a new bike, but we can pay Betsy Bo for the pizza." She sets the pot on a table, and continues talking as she sorts the pizzas according to their correspondences to the Russian SSRs. (Some brave souls approach to take some pizza, disturbing the intricate mappings.) "Next week is spring break for us at psu. I'll be back in March with an unparalleled, teracreative, fascinando, ultimascintillating, really wabbo piece which I dreamt about two mights ago and am going to try to write. "Any mail sent to me between tomorrow and March exclusive will probably evaporate from my reader before I get it. In fact, I think I'll have a ginger ale." She takes an isosceles slice of pizza with asymmetrical toppings and sits back to read about the Illuminati. Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!iear.arts.rpi.edu!fargo From: fargo@iear.arts.rpi.edu (Irwin M. Fargo) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Lost..... Message-ID: Date: 22 Feb 90 08:20:48 GMT Organization: Fargo HQ, Inc. Lines: 39 The door opens to let in a man with straight, dark brown hair, dark brown eyes, a chin that, if he was quite perturbed, would certainly protude itself outward, and a nose that smells of Jewish origins from a mile away ('cuse the pun there about the nose, but I've been known for malodorous jokes). He takes off his dark blue, down coat, and hangs it on the coat rack to reveal a gray, button down shirt and gray jeans. Measuring up to about 5'9", he looks a bit thin. He wanders over to the bar, asks Mike for an iced tea, slaps a single down, and proceeds to gulp down the liquid. After sitting and listening to some of the conversation. He gets up, walks over to that famous chalk line, and begins to speak: "This one is to laziness." And with that, he throws the glass into the fireplace, adding to the pile of shards lying there. He then grabs a chair, sits down, and speaks once more. "My name is Ethan Young, but I'll answer to Fargo, Spell Binder, or even Darric the Disillusioned Digressing Diviner," with a short smile to Taldin "But anyways, I've really been screwing things up. I'm one of those people who goes to sleep at 4 in the morning and wakes up at 12 noon. This would be fine except that most of my classes are from 9 am to noon. "This is really driving me up a wall as now I have to drop a class to avoid getting a bad grade. And it's really bothering me. I feel like I'm hiding from my mom after I broke the cookie jar or something. "I've really got to do something about this. I mean, I have mail sitting on my floor that's about a month old. It's been opened and looked at, but there are bills that need be paid, forms to fill out, and who knows what else." He pauses for a few seconds, "I'll probably just stick around here for awhile longer and listen to what everyone else is talking about." He then gets up, walks over to the table Taldin is sitting at, sits down and strikes up some conversation. Something about "LARP"...... Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!usc!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!mcnc!uvaarpa!hudson!bessel.acc.Virginia.EDU!pcp2g From: pcp2g@bessel.acc.Virginia.EDU (Philip C. Plait) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: A Toast To Stereotypes Message-ID: <2635@hudson.acc.virginia.edu> Date: 22 Feb 90 01:54:52 GMT References: <5604.25e13c84@elroy.uh.edu> <7000@celit.fps.com> Sender: news@hudson.acc.virginia.edu Reply-To: pcp2g@bessel.acc.Virginia.EDU (Philip C. Plait) Organization: Academic Computing Center, University of Va. Lines: 59 In article <7000@celit.fps.com> kathy@fps.com (the Rev. Mom) writes: > cosc5sh@elroy.uh.edu (Unbeliever) writes: >>"I'd like to make a toast to stereotypes. ... >... >>The reason I was sent this card is simple -- I'm a >>22-year-old college male. Therefore, I'm a beer-guzzling, loudmouthed >>fraternity troublemaker. QED." >>*SIGH* "To stereotypes! You may laugh, you may cry, but they're >>still the #1 way that people (of all nations) judge one another. >>Think on that and be dismayed!" >I'll drink to stereotypes, but I refuse to be dismayed. >You call *that* a stereotype? I've been called 'a member of >the Viet-Cong' when I cut off someone in a parking lot, and >a 'fucking Nip' when my brakelights went out. I've been asked >"Are you Chinese or Japanese?" a zillion times (to which I >usually answer "my *parents* are Chinese." or "I'm American.") >But there is a bright side. Most of the time such stereotyping >is unintentional, and once I explain the offense, the recipient >of my lecture works a little harder at making it go away. A root beer bottle arcs high above Kathy's head to join the debris in the fireplace. "To stereotypes!" I yell. Because I work as an astronomy TA, I am labelled a geek (maybe I AM a geek--but it doesn't necessarily follow!). Because I am Jewish by heritage (not by belief) I am labelled as greedy (maybe I am, but again it doesn't have to be). Because I have a love of science and scientific reasoning, I am labelled an intellectual (I love watching "Gilligan's Island" reruns). I had the misfortune to be in a fraternity for a short amount of time, and am labelled a frat boy. [Mike looks up from behind the bar, astonished. I look up at him, shrugging my shoulders. "See?" I say to him. He looks embarassed, then mugs at me and hands me another root beer.] I get about three credit card applications a week saying "You have just graduated from college and need the security bleahbleahbleah..." even though I graduated three years ago and have moved halfway across the country. As a college grad, I must be on my way to the capitalist dream of buy, buy, BUY! (Bye-bye, buy-buy, by-the-by!). At best stereotypes are the punch line to a feeble joke. At worst, they promote racism and can hurt. I turn around and face Kathy and the Unbeliever, bottle of corrosive root beer held high. "To us un-stereotypical (monotypical? polytypical?) stereotypes! May we all be different together!" ********CRASH************* * Phil Plait PCP2G@bessel.acc.virginia.EDU * UVa Dept. of Astronomy Grad student (at large) * * "Censorship? You're worried about censorship when you write crap like that?" Newsgroups: alt.callahans Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!chaos.cs.brandeis.edu!adam From: adam@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu (David C. Kaplowitz) Subject: Re: A toast, and Soulmates (more or less) In-Reply-To: daq@hpfcso.HP.COM's message of 21 Feb 90 05:08:42 GMT Message-ID: <1990Feb22.192031.9421@chaos.cs.brandeis.edu> Organization: Brandeis University Computer Science Dept References: <90051.091126TAG2@psuvm.psu.edu> <9060031@hpfcso.HP.COM> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 90 19:20:31 GMT Lines: 13 In responce to Cynic, >Fear cannot be conquered. Just deal with it. But your are right >about self confidence and risk. I just think about the litany of fear from Dune (Herbert) and FDR's quote. It helps. Not alot but it helps. Traveler In Elephants, Dave -- Path: mit-eddie!bu.edu!lll-winken!decwrl!shelby!lindy!news From: GE.LJB@forsythe.stanford.edu (Louis J Bookbinder) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: stereo- who? Message-ID: <8182@lindy.Stanford.EDU> Date: 22 Feb 90 20:58:18 GMT Sender: news@lindy.Stanford.EDU (News Service) Lines: 23 Nick Chopper clanks in again from the back room, this time carrying a rusty machete obviously fashioned from an old truck spring. The back edge is rusty, anyhow, but the cutting edge flashes in the lights. "Hey, I like that one: 'May we all be different together!' Yes, indeed." He glances over at one of the virtual tables folded into one of the n dimensions of the place - there is Jilara, again, ghostly as before, and Nick knows that she hears the things in the place, and sometimes talks, but is never at home in real net-space. "Jilara, if you can hear me, try to drop me a line. All my garbage to you has bounced." *sigh* "I'm still interested in your suggestion to meet a.c.-wise at the White Cockade. But it is lonely here with just your ghost!" He goes over to the table and slowly passes a hand through the semi-transparent image. A tear rolls down one cheek. "Nick, you'll rust from the tears!" shouts a voice from one of the odd little quadrupeds at the next table. Nick straightens, takes out a greasy rag and wipes his cheek. Then he turns and clanks out of the room. Nick Chopper - my opinion? dont ax! LB>- GE.LJB@Forsythe.stanford.edu Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!uwvax!rang From: rang@cs.wisc.edu (Anton Rang) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: How about a midwest Callahan's gathering? Message-ID: Date: 23 Feb 90 02:59:58 GMT References: <1654@lakesys.lakesys.com> <6442@cps3xx.UUCP> <9771@spool.cs.wisc.edu> Sender: news@spool.cs.wisc.edu Distribution: na Organization: UW-Madison CS department Lines: 10 In-reply-to: lewandow@sabertooth.cs.wisc.edu's message of 18 Feb 90 17:52:14 GMT In article <9771@spool.cs.wisc.edu> lewandow@sabertooth.cs.wisc.edu (Gary Lewandowski (TA of Doom)) writes: >Oh, and I *insist* it simply must be in Madison. :-) I vote for Madison, Milwaukee, or East Lansing. :-) Anton +---------------------------+------------------+-------------+ | Anton Rang (grad student) | rang@cs.wisc.edu | UW--Madison | +---------------------------+------------------+-------------+ Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!yale!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!jarthur!uci-ics!orion.oac.uci.edu!ucsd!ucbvax!mtxinu!unisoft!greywolf From: greywolf@unisoft.UUCP (The Grey Wolf) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Love, and Lifelong Soulmates Message-ID: <2829@unisoft.UUCP> Date: 22 Feb 90 21:12:09 GMT References: <|-!#5^|@rpi.edu> <9060029@hpfcso.HP.COM> Reply-To: greywolf@unisoft.UUCP (The Grey Wolf) Lines: 52 In article <9060029@hpfcso.HP.COM> daq@hpfcso.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes: > >No Taldin, HERE is the cynical view: > >I will grant, for the sake of argument that soul mates do >exist. I postulate that my soul mate lives in China. >Let us assume that this young lady has some reason to make >the long journey to Fort Collins, center of the &*%$# >universe. I am sure that at the very moment our paths >are about to cross, one of us will be hit by a bus. > >There. I can't let anyone infringe on cynicism, now can I? ** WOOF! ** { Boyobboy! We're *really* talking bury-yourself-in-the-sand-because-the- world-sucks-rocks-and-will-never-improve, all-out, down-and-dirty cynicism here! I thought *I* used to be cynical!!! Man, you take the f#$(%*g cake! No, Cynic, your paths will cross. Your eyes will meet hers in a brief instant of recognition. THEN one of you will get hit by a bus.} > >>"Now, for those of you who DON'T believe in soulmates at all-- >>do you believe in souls? Good. Because where there's an inner >>self, defining your hopes and dreams and ideals, there's someone >>out there with hopes and dreams and ideas that complement yours. > >Jesus Christ, I hope not! Then the world truly isn't safe >for democracy. { (my turn! :-) What makes you think the world has *ever* been safe for democracy? I'm not convinced of it! Not when there is the threat to tax drivers out of existence and then probably not ever use the money for mass transit (at least in CA). This is a different thread, though. But the world is *still* not safe for democracy. (the only political system which works (according to statistics) is a dictatorship with enough muscle. (but then, we all know, statistics lie.) Anyway, enough of this...) } > > >Ohhhh, have a nice day. Just a bit of levity, if not brevity. Have a nice day.[*] > >Cynic > > [*]: Offer void where prohibited -- Brain fried. (Explanation is in file "core".)