Path: mit-eddie!bu.edu!lll-winken!decwrl!ucbvax!ucdavis!pollux!ez000691 From: ez000691@pollux Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Hell Summary: Ouch. Keywords: cynic Message-ID: <7050@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> Date: 15 Mar 90 05:38:50 GMT References: <9060035@hpfcso.HP.COM> Sender: uucp@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu Reply-To: ez000691@pollux.ucdavis.edu (Shadow) Followup-To: alt.callahans Organization: University of California, Davis Lines: 58 In article <9060035@hpfcso.HP.COM> daq@hpfcso.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes: > Well grand empaths. > Let us discuss hate. > Have you ever felt it? > Or are we all above such things? > > Sometimes, usually when I am playing basketball > or some other competetive activity, I can > almost be provoked to rage. Why can this > happen to a man as eminently reasonable > as myself? I actually broke my hand once > when I got angry during a game. This is > the zenith of stupidity, but there it was. > It was my hand and it was broken. > > Certainly rage is not hate, but I think that > the emotions may be connected, and it disturbs > me that I do not have complete control. > > Is there a place for this? Or, more appropriately, > is there a place to put it, something to do with > it to render it null and void? > >Still the Cynic "Above such things," mutters Shadow. "Ha. If only." Shadow drifts over to the board, and pins a blank piece of paper on it with one of the darts. "Take a message," he says, and the words obligingly appear on its face... "As I've disclaimed before, despite being the scapegoat who first toasted empathy back in article 34 or whenever it was, I'm no Empath, grand or otherwise. When people throw pain at me, maybe I'm just too stupid to duck. "Rage and hate are likely connected. It's tough to be furious at some- body without hating him (pardon the sexist pronoun) at least a little. And it's almost as hard to hate someone without being angry at her (pardon the etc.). "Practical suggestion: Never hate anyone who is present. There's no way to really control this kind of negativity, but not having an immediate target at least lets you choose how to direct it. An illusion of control, if you will. Throw things at a T.V. set. Hang up your phone really loudly, and slam doors. Shred napkins, if it'll help you feel better. Which it probably won't. "But as you've discovered, 'reason' has very very little to do with that gut-twisting distaste that boils up from your liver and coats your senses with bile. And I've found it doesn't go away, at least not by itself. And by heaven, it's better to seethe in your own misery than to direct it at someone else, even if he (pardon...aww, the hell with it) really deserves it. You only end up feeling worse afterwards. "Hell, I'm not telling you anything you don't know already. But there isn't any magical answer. People piss off people, y'know. And unless people deal with it, it just builds up until something gives. And sometimes you break a glass, and sometimes you break a hand, and sometimes you break a heart. "'Letting off steam' is more than just an expression. Even for a healthy cynic." Shadow -- From the only slightly twisted mind of... "In case we decide to ez000691@pollux.ucdavis.edu surrender to them, Number One." Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jm7w+ From: jm7w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joelle Ann Mellon) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: To the cynic and Silver Message-ID: Date: 15 Mar 90 06:22:47 GMT Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 36 Joelle then turns to the cynic and raises her eyebrows. "I realize that Taldin and I have angered you with our post, and for that I do beg your forgiveness. We did not intend to be self righteous in our love, nor did we wish to cause anger. Our announcement was merely one of joy...like you would announce a wedding or a birth -- and indeed something new has been born in me. However, both Taldin and I are new to the world of being in love. For many years, I was miserable and angry every time I saw another couple "flaunting" their happiness, and holidays like Valentine's Day made me sick. Believe me, I know of what you speak. I assure you, we meant no offense. Taldin merely wished to share our joy with his friends and to reassure them that they too can find a soulmate. I realize that love can leave those to whom it has been given, and I can only sincerely hope that love chooses to remain with Tal and I. If our joy has offended anybody else, I am truly sorry. And I hope you will permit me to buy you a drink, for I am new here and do not want to offend anybody." Joelle wanders over from her place beside Taldin and takes both of the Cynic's hands. "I am sincerely sorry you feel that way about love. If there is anything I can do to ease your pain, let me know. I would like everybody to be as happy as I am at this moment. Sometimes posts like yours are a cry for help. If this is so with yours, let me know. And I ask the company of Callahan's to let the Cynic remain, for he dearly needs this place." She blows him a kiss and moves on to Silver, the new arrival. I could not find your post anywhere among the others. However, since I seem to have everybody's attention for the moment, I would like to introduce Silver, Callahan's other new patron. Tal and I were inadvertently rude to him before, and for that we ask his pardon. Please, everyone, do your best to make him welcome as I shall henceforth attempt to do. Once again, I offer you peace and love, Joelle Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!image.soe.clarkson.edu!news From: stadnism@clutx.clarkson.edu (Steven Stadnicki,,,) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: The Cynic rants raves and rages Message-ID: <1990Mar15.063201.21380@sun.soe.clarkson.edu> Date: 15 Mar 90 06:32:01 GMT References: <9060039@hpfcso.HP.COM> Sender: news@sun.soe.clarkson.edu Reply-To: stadnism@clutx.clarkson.edu Organization: Clarkson University, Potsdam, NY Lines: 30 [Warning; this may have the feel of fire. I would have kept it to E-mail, but it makes one big point that I think was critical to point out to all of you, having to do with not giving him what he wants; read it if you want to know what I mean] Doug, I'm not going to argue with you, because that's what you want. I'm just going to ask a few questions, and you can answer or not answer, as you like. I'd rather you answered, and answered honestly, but I know from personal experience that that's not likely. It really doesn't matter... > Humbly awaiting the will of the masses. First question: why are you so hell-bent on *making us* throw you out? I'm sorry, you may have fooled a few people here, but I'm not leaving. If they kick you out, I'm going to go with you, and I'm going to stay with you until you feel like talking to me. If you don't, then you don't, but I'm going to make *damn* sure that it wasn't because I wasn't there. Second: what has you so convinced that there's nothing that we can do? I know how you feel--I feel the same way, I damn near *left* here a couple of days ago, and still haven't quite made up my mind--but I can't believe it, any more than the people I talk to can believe me. I may not be able to do anything for you--I probably won't--but you'll never know unless you try. As far as I can tell, you wanted to leave, but you couldn't do that to us, so you're making us make you leave... like I said before, it won't work. I'm not going to kick you out, and I'm not going to leave you. That may not be what you want, but it's what you're getting. Steve Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!yale!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jf2z+ From: jf2z+@andrew.cmu.edu (John Charles Fiala) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Gather at CMU/Pittsburgh. Message-ID: Date: 15 Mar 90 07:05:31 GMT References: , <90073.191717EMD101@psuvm.psu.edu> Organization: Class of '92, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 21 In-Reply-To: <90073.191717EMD101@psuvm.psu.edu> Whoops! I made a mistake. Here's the extra line in the note I forgot. | let's meet Saturday | I meant Saturday, from noon to whenever. {Say, george, how DID you pull that off?} Scotland Yard if findable in Skibo, just ask anyone. Skibo is the UGLY U-shaped building with a parking lot between it and Forbes. Lo! and Welcome! I'll be there (With George). John Fiala jf2z@andrew.cmu.edu "You ELOPED??" "Don't say "Eloped"...! Can't you be more ROMANTIC?! 'A flight of love in the night'...or something..." --Outlanders, #14 Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jm7w+ From: jm7w+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joelle Ann Mellon) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: One more thing, then I'll be quiet, Cynic Message-ID: Date: 15 Mar 90 07:31:26 GMT Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 8 One thing that I cannot ever allow you to imply in my presence...that Taldin is nothing special. Admittedly, there are billions of people in the world, but none of them is like Taldin (in my biased opinion). If each of them was anywhere near as pure and bright and innocent and GOOD as Taldin the Blue Unicorn, there would be no need for cynicism...He is one of a kind and I love him for it (as well as for other things). Joelle Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jf2z+ From: jf2z+@andrew.cmu.edu (John Charles Fiala) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: The Cynic rants raves and rages Message-ID: Date: 15 Mar 90 07:34:06 GMT References: <9060039@hpfcso.HP.COM> Organization: Class of '92, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 94 In-Reply-To: <9060039@hpfcso.HP.COM> (The Cynic's words are in quotes.) "I am about to say some things that may get me kicked out of this bar forever, but I am very perturbed, and I feel the need. It is a policy never to flame. I will try not to violate that rule, but I may not succeed." If you get kicked out, I leave. Callahan's is not a place that someone is to be thrown out of. "At the forefront of this post, I want to apologize to all of the members of Callahan's for becoming angry, but that is an emotion too, and people are being pretty free with emotions, so I will too." You are perfectly allowed to get angry. Something is (obviously) upsetting you, and so you show this by getting angry and (more importantly) letting us know WHY you are angry. >That I can do, m'ilady. Hugs are what makes Callahan's go 'round. "Well then, I guess there really is no need for a cynic." No, Hugs makes Callahan's go 'round, but Cynics are vital to getting us someplace. Many of us here are idealists, and tend to "Skip over" things, sometimes vital things. Someone has to help us remain tied to the real world among all of the aleph-zero corners, time-traveling dump trucks, and plaid drinks we surround ourselves with. "You know Jilara, a few weeks ago you and Alaric were going on about how Callahan's is not a singles bar. Well, apparently it is! This irritated me a great deal. Let's at least be honest with each other. I come to this forum and bear my soul to people in the faint hope that they and I might gain something from it and here you are telling people this is not a singles bar at the very same time you are carrying on a covert rendezvouz. I am greatly dissapointed. I ask your forgiveness for my harsh judgement, but this is the way I feel now." Well, look, just because people meet possible soulmates doesn`t make this a single's bar, does it? People aren`t actively looking for romance here. CMU is more of a single's bar than this place is, and if finding a possible soulmate/romance at a place makes it a single's bar, than so is my elementary school, `cause that's the place I met the only girlfriend I've had. "Exile is horrible no matter what. Let us not glamorize things." I agree with you completely. "Well Steve. I drink to you. But don't assume that any of those things you list will bring you this super calla fragilistic expiala soul mate. When in high school I thought I had to be nice. It did not work. When in college I thought I had to be open and sensitive. It did not work. When I got older I realized that what was important was to be callous, exploitative, and selfish. It works, but I lost interest." I`m currently at the "open and sensitive" stage. I don't (currently) want to be exploitative, but I realize that I may be somewhat like this. " I read posts by people in their early twenties about how they have not found anyone yet, and I so desperately want to tell them to organize their lives so that they can be reasonably content without anyone, because there is no insurance that they will find someone." True, very true... I haven`t had any girlfriend for quite a while. But I don`t need one as much as I did, and I am organizing my life so I can be without one. (Not that I would turn one down!) I`ve stopped actively searching. If it happens, It happens. "I think that the celebrations might best if held a bit more discretely" Perhaps, but some people like to hear of other people doing well. I do. If you don't, I'm sorry. "I place my flag proudly and firmly among the have nots. If they will not acknowledge me, then I place it proudly and firmly for myself. " I think there's space over by my flag, actually. "The Cynic." John Fiala jf2z@andrew.cmu.edu "You ELOPED??" "Don't say "Eloped"...! Can't you be more ROMANTIC?! 'A flight of love in the night'...or something..." --Outlanders, #14 Path: mit-eddie!bloom-beacon!bu.edu!bu-pub.bu.edu!ckd From: ckd@bu-pub.bu.edu (Christopher Davis) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: The Cynic rants raves and rages Message-ID: Date: 15 Mar 90 08:04:53 GMT References: <9060039@hpfcso.HP.COM> Sender: news@bu.edu.bu.edu Reply-To: ckd@bu-pub.bu.edu (Christopher Davis) Organization: Boston University School of Management Lines: 53 In-reply-to: daq@hpfcso.HP.COM's message of 14 Mar 90 06:06:52 GMT Chris gets up on the tailga... "No, no, no. I parked it in Pluto orbit. I *can't* use it as a podium. Okay, fine, I'll stand up, but I'm not getting onto any nonexistent trucks." The Cynic was saying... > You know Jilara, a few weeks ago you and Alaric were going on about > how Callahan's is not a singles bar. Well, apparently it is! "Well, no, it's not. From 'Fivesight': "Dis is Callahan's Place," Eddie said. "This place is magic," I told her. "Magic? *Bull*shit, magic, it's a *bar.* People come here to get blind." "No. Not this one. People come to this bar to see...." "...and I think that's what happens. I know I won't find a relationship here; I won't find a relationship *anywhere* for a while, as I'm at one of those awkward points where you really don't know where you'll be living in three months...but here I have *friends.* And you know what, Cynic? I consider you one. If people here find each other more than friends, more power to 'em; but first and foremost, *friends*." > I feel that I may have overstayed my welcome. "I disagree." > Again, I really do not wish ill upon anyone, but I guess I really > am just different than even most of the posters in Callahan's. > I feel a great deal of frustration toward all of this exclusive > soul mate business with its inherent implication of, "hey, I > got mine, where is yours?" "I feel some of this, too; I've managed to (mostly, *not* completely) rise above it. "It's been not quite a year since my last breakup, and it took me most of that time to stop brooding and start living again. Yes, it still hurts... hell, my *first* breakup still hurts, and that was long enough ago that I can't remember exactly how long it was. "If it weren't for my friends, both here (physically) and here (virtually), I'd still be eating my liver (figuratively). Now I'm just picking at it. I know it'll never completely stop hurting, but I can live with it now. "I'm glad you stayed to talk this time...I want you to know that we do care." "Howzabout another ginger ale for me, and whatever the Cynic wants. On me." -- Christopher Davis, BU SMG '90 <...!bu.edu!bu-pub!ckd> "Basic upshot - get your science straight, or start getting used to the taste of your Nikes." --Siobahn Morgan, thebang@blake.acs.washington.edu Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: The Cynic rants raves and rages Message-ID: <34953@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> Date: 15 Mar 90 10:34:07 GMT References: <9060039@hpfcso.HP.COM> Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.Berkeley.EDU (David Goldfarb) Organization: ucb Lines: 16 I've read some of the other follow-up messages, so I know I'm one of many when I say: Cynic, stay. You threw a grenade yesterday, and I flamed you for it myself. But I think you need to be here. And that means we need you to be here. If we turn our backs on you now, then this Place is dead. Worse: then it never lived. I don't know. I don't know what I can say to help you. I don't know that I *can* say anything to help you. I'm not an empath. I don't know how to reach out to people in need. But if you leave here, it'll be because you no longer want to stay, and not because you're not welcome. David Goldfarb goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (Insert standard disclaimer) "When your heart broke, it healed all wrong; so we'll break it again and re-set it." -- Diane Duane, _The Door into Shadow_ Path: mit-eddie!bu.edu!bucsf.bu.edu!austin From: austin@bucsf.bu.edu (Austin H. Ziegler, III) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Well again...it is good to be back! Message-ID: Date: 15 Mar 90 14:49:59 GMT Sender: news@bu.edu.bu.edu Organization: Boston University College of Engineering Lines: 108 There is a familiar presence in the air at Callahan's today. Not a recent one, but one from the beginning. Everyone feels it, and those who knew it before know it is different, as the difference between the taste of Rocky Road and Chocolate Chip. Then the voice begins, soft and weak at first, but growing stronger with every word. "Empaths aren't. I have nothing against empaths, having called myself one but a couple months ago, but what I've found is that it is difficult for an empath to truly relate to people. Empaths have a talent for seeing emotion, and that is it. It is what you do with that emotion that counts. I will not pass judgement on anyone, for I am one of the most fit to be judged guilty, I am certain." As the voice talks, a body begins forming. "Cynic, there is none to say whether you belong here or not but yourself. I made that decision in January. I believe the saying goes something like 'You find Callahan's when you need it.' Yes, you said some pretty harsh things, but I found myself agreeing with a lot of what you said. You pointed out what I merely learned yesterday. Man is not perfect, and we are all learning all the time. I think there is a lesson to be learned from your speech. Hell, when everything was going good for me, I was so *arrogant.* Well, after yesterday, I'm still going to be arrogant in some respects because that is part of my personality. Part that I'm working on, but still part." Some people begin to recognize the form, but say nothing. "Now to say a few things to specific people: Joelle and Taldin, congratulations upon finding each other, would that I could find someone to relate to as you have. Gilly, are you sure you aren't the sunshine that is lighting this place? Always the enthusiast, I enjoy seeing your posts because they make my day, no matter how bad or good, better. Jilara: congratulations to you and Alaric, and I received the card yesterday." The form comes into clarity now. It is a young man, looking about twenty-two or so, wearing a dark shirt, white pants, a navy blue jacket, and black dance shoes. He has rather thick glasses, and extremely blond hair. He contemplates for a moment, and then breaks out in laughter. "God, life is good! I never thought I'd say that last night... "Everyone in this place is special, whether they think so or not. There is no one who is better or more needed than any other. Sure, there are founding members...I'm one who went astray, so to speak. All that matters is that I'm back in the company of friends. Good friends." As he speaks, a Warm Fuzzy appears in his hand. "Cynic," he says, "I think you need this little guy the most...because it seems you feel the most left out." He walks over to the Cynic, takes his hand and quickly changes the handshake into a bear-hug. "Were it not for you, I would not be back for all to see, and I probably would have left the Place in a few days...I was lurking, you see...I've gotten good at that. Too good." "Oh, my...I seem to have forgotten to introduce myself for those who do not know me: I am Austin, once called Magyk. Do not call me Magyk any more because that is not who I really am. I thought it was a superset of myself, but it was not. I'll just be Austin around here. Chris uses technology to move around here, but I guess I'm the mix between technology and magic. Let me demonstrate..." He summons a computer, enters a few commands and a spell is cast...the entire room seems to light up a lot. There are still dark corners for those who wish to remain hidden. The light dims a little, and when you look at the source of the light, it is a miniature Sun! "Now we can all have a little sunshine in our lives..." "Jilara...I have one more thing to thank you for, and now all in the Place can share this with me. In your first letter to me, you included a poem. That poem has done more for me than you can imagine. Here it is...take it at face value." He taps a few more keys on the computer, and everyone has a laser-printed page in front of them (yes, even the lurkers...) with the following text: Risks Author Unknown To laugh is to risk appearing the fool. To weep is to risk appearing sentimental. To reach out for another is to risk exposing your true self. To place your ideas, your dreams, before a crowd is to risk their loss. To love is to risk not being loved in return. To hope is to risk despair To try is to risk failure But risks must be taken, Because the greatest hazard in life is to risk nothing. The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, and is nothing. they may avoid suffering and sorrow, But they cannot learn, feel, change, grow, love, live. Chained by their attitudes, they are a slave, they have forfeited their freedom. Only a person who risks is free." He turns to Mike. "Non-alcoholic something again, Mike. Make it a Pin~a Colada..." "Oh, you ask what my computer's name might be so you can send mail? Well, you're better off using the account that I'm using to post this. But my computer's name is Webster...he spells quite well." Weaving a quick spell, he catches every single one of the peanuts... "Hey! Let's get down! Life is too good too miss!" austin -- austin@bucsf.bu.edu (big responses should go to austin@buengf.bu.edu) "Death is dead. Long live Death!" -- Purgatory News Service, _On a Pale Horse_ Path: mit-eddie!bbn!granite!mandel From: mandel@granite.cr.bull.com (Mark Mandel) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Shared Joy, Alt The World's A... Message-ID: <1990Mar15.144938.1828@granite.cr.bull.com> Date: 15 Mar 90 14:49:38 GMT References: Reply-To: mandel@granite.cr.bull.com (Mark Mandel) Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Inc. Lines: 16 (Returning to his table after toasting Taldin and Lady Joelle in Latin, Silverblack stumbles over a large book on the floor. In attempting to keep his balance, he kicks it open, and winds up face-down on the pages. The book turns out to be Lewis & Short's Latin Dictionary, known to generations, by opposites and puns, as "Levis et Brevis": literally, 'light and short', neither of which describes it. He reads the entry-word an inch from his right eye.) "IMPRECOR! Wouldn't you know it? Tripped up by a deponent verb!" (He picks up the dictionary and takes it back to the table with him, where it becomes part of an improvised easel on which he continues to work on his resume.) -- -- Mark Mandel (InterNet for a while: mandel@granite.cr.bull.com) /* Bull disclaims all responsibility for me, and I for them. */