Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!yale!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM!jane From: jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM (Jane Beckman x4030) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: White Cockade Weekend Message-ID: <9003151148.AA17255@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM> Date: 15 Mar 90 19:48:49 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 4 The response for a White Cockade gathering of Callahanians is skewed overwhelmingly for the weekend of April 7-8. Do people prefer Saturday or Sunday? I think afternoon sounds like a good time for us. Opinions? ---Jilara jane%fsdcupt.csd@urbana.mcd.mot.com Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!psuvax1!psuvm!jls139 From: JLS139@psuvm.psu.edu (Abaddon) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Cynic; languages; and T-shirts? Message-ID: <90074.121240JLS139@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 15 Mar 90 17:12:40 GMT Organization: Penn State University Lines: 36 Abaddon looks up at the Cynics ravings. His eyes begin to glow more brightly. A puzzled from comes across his face. "Cynic, if you need help, you've chosen a strange way to show it. A simple request would have been sufficient - to attack other patron's good intentions is not the answer. On the other hand, if you aren't seeking help then maybe you'd better leave, 'though I won't be the one to ask you to go. I, like others who have posted in response, enjoy having a cynic around to present the opposition. Without an opposing viewpoint there is little point at discussion at all. If you do wish to leave, you may stay for some time in my world of shadows or you can visit anytime. Just cool off a bit first, it's hot enough as it is.:-)" Adressing the crowd at large: "Pochyemu zdyec nyekatori iz nix govorit po yaziki?" :-) On T-shirts: I have to agree with Betsy Bo, although I enjoy advertising my favorite interests on T-shirts as much as anyone, the idea seems a bit too commercial. Perhaps a mug/glass (shot glass?) with a simple Callahan's logo would be more appropriate? That way you could drink your toast with the real thing and it's something you could still bring to a party to show off. Oh yes and: 'The road to hell is "laved" with good intentions'? ^^^^^ That was a pour pun. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ...jeff stine......Abaddon... "fiery the angels fell..." ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Path: mit-eddie!mit-amt!snorkelwacker!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!psuvax1!psuvm!tag2 From: TAG2@psuvm.psu.edu Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: The Cynic rants raves and rages Message-ID: <90074.145658TAG2@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 15 Mar 90 19:56:58 GMT References: <9060039@hpfcso.HP.COM> Organization: Penn State University Lines: 26 Deepvoice walks out from his place in the shadows. "Whiskey, Mike. Make it strong; the shadows demand some solace from time to time". His eyes seem to alternate between closed and wide-eyed staring at the floor as he drinks. He hears the raging of the Cynic and some equal raging by others at the Place. Trying to raise his voice but failing, the man decides to not even bother shouting, but letting anyone who wishes to hear him to do so. "Cynic, while I don't agree with your style of getting your points across, I for one think that ye DO have some points. I was getting kinda frustrated with the apparent polarization of the Place, and I'm glad that you stood up and spoke. I don't believe in Soulmates; I, at least, feel too humanly flawed to even consider such a communion with another. The "power of fate" was never too convincing on my side, sorry to say. We need advocates of the shadows, as Taldin might say, as well as advocates of light to get anywhere with our talks here. There HAS to be a Place for the cons as well as the pros, lest we all get too Pollyanish here. But then, I've yet to get a real feel for the "magic" of the Place, and I'll confess to being a young fool, so I could be wrong. I really hope I'm not." With that, Deepvoice hurls his glass into the flames, saying "To the believers, however many are left in the world, and the cynics, who are and must be." Back to my shadows for now.... Tom Gryn........................tag2@PSUVM "Life is unfair, but there ARE balances..." - Joel Rosenberg. Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jt1o+ From: jt1o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph L. Traub) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Pittsburgh Gathering Message-ID: Date: 15 Mar 90 20:48:45 GMT Organization: Class of '91, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 64 Moonchilde stands up from his chair where he has been sitting near Taldin, Joelle, Tabbifli, and others. "Folks.. I tried to say this earlier, but apparently I was not loud enough, and John sorta beat me to the punch" "This Saturday Evening (March 17) there will be a Pittsburgh IRC gathering. Callahanians, and TinyMudders are also welcome.. We can make arrangements to meet in Skibo (Scotland Yard sounds Great John, and from there move over to the place of the party." "Oktave, if you will be around on Friday, I can also arrange to meet you at Scotland Yard then." "I realize that this is a rather short notice, but I would like to meet with any and all from here as well as from TinyMud, and IRC..." "Mike, an Italian Soda please?" "Taldin and Joelle, you have my greatest blessings.. I love you both dearly." "Cynic... You are welcome to remain, and I urge you to remain as long as you want or need.. If you ever get 'kicked' out of Callahans, I too would leave, for I will not remain in a place that is that intolerant of anothers pain. I do not know all of what causes you pain, but I offer my friendship, and my ear if you ever wish to talk." "Actually, that last offer goes to any.." "Shadow, that is exactly what an empath is when you get down too it.. Empaths are those too stupid, or too compassionate to duck out of the way of another's pain..." "Jilara, my email to you still keeps bouncing.. I have not seen nor heard from you in a while, and I would like too. Please email me again, so that I might try to reconstruct an address that works from me to you? Mine is jt1o@andrew.cmu.edu (Internet) or ....!uunet!andrew.cmu.edu!jt1o (UUCP)" "Silver.. I too welcome you. Your intro has not reached here yet.. maybe CMU is not getting a full alt.callahan feed??? That would be depressing. But anyway welcome, sit down, and enjoy the atmosphere" "and finally, my toast. It's been a long while since anyone has toasted this, so I think it is about time.. In view of the happiness that Joelle and Taldin share, and in view of the pain of others that I hope they will share and by doing ease thier burdens, I toast to the motto of Callahan's Place." "To Shared Pain, may it always diminish, and to Shared Joy, may it always increase." Moonchilde Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jt1o+ From: jt1o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph L. Traub) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Welcome (back and otherwise) Message-ID: Date: 15 Mar 90 21:22:21 GMT Organization: Class of '91, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 31 As Austin enters the room, Moonchilde rises once again. "Austin, it is wonderful to see that you have not left us for good. I am glad to see you, and am glad your life is happy... Maybe there is a tale there, maybe not.. I won't ask" "Eric, never think you are alone here. Mike, my usual for me, and whatever Eric will have for him.. On me." "Eric, if I might join you? I know the feeling of being alone in a crowd, as that is how I have spent most of my life.. I also know the fear of what the future holds that you speak of. If you will accept my company, or better yet, come and join my friends we would all welcome you.. That is the magic of this place, there is never a need for anyone to be alone, unless he wishes to be so." "So, to lonliness, may it ever vanish in this place, as shadows vanish before the light of morning." Moonchilde Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!yale!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!bridge2!jarthur!uunet!sco!caroline From: caroline@sco.COM (Caprice) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Spring, Soulmates and other Such Stuff Message-ID: <3254@scorn.sco.COM> Date: 15 Mar 90 19:32:00 GMT Sender: news@sco.COM Reply-To: caroline@sco.COM (Caprice) Distribution: alt Organization: The Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. Lines: 90 Stepping in from a world which she'd like to be misty but which is, at the moment, a sunny Californian spring day, the young cloaked woman speaks up. She's wearing a much lighter cloak today, since the air is much warmer. Hi folks. I've Named myself since I was last here: Caprice. Why Caprice? you ask. Well, because of its meaning and because it sounds to me like it is somewhat similar to one of those silly names that some misguided parents give to their girl-children, and for that, it strikes my odd sense of humor. If I were a punk-rock star, I thought to myself, I'd call myself Caprice. Since I'm not, I'm going to lay claim to the name anyway. So. Last time I was here, I'd been lurking outside the windows a while and just introduced myself quickly by mentioning that it bothered me that there were hungry people in the world. Well, it still bothers me, but it looks to me like people want to discuss other feelings, especially love and soulmates. I have a lot of thoughts about love and soulmates, but I don't usually Talk About It. Especially not lately. That's because I'm yet another one who's decided that the whole concept is, if not false, then possibly inappropriate. So I'm very sympathetic to those of you expressing such sentiments, and perhaps also like you, I don't really want to hear that if I just wait long enough, Love will appear on my doorstep. It hasn't yet, and I can feel myself getting older with the waiting. Some of you folk are saying that you're all of 20-some and still haven't found The One. Well, I've been "looking" since I was 18, and maybe earlier, and I'm 32 now and have a child besides, and I still haven't found The One, either. I'm no longer sure he (or possibly she?) exists, and after I got over being sad about that (hah! got over it? more like developed such a thick skin that it didn't seem to matter anymore) I no longer care. It hurts way too much to think that a special someone might exist somewhere, but not here, and to recall that I've been through so much pain that should have been lessened by being shared and wasn't.... so I stopped believing. Self-defense, I guess. But that's why I don't Talk About It, because it brings tears to my eyes to do so, and it's unseemly to cry like that over something that a good part of the world thinks is a fantasy anyhow. She pulls herself together before going on to a new topic, if only so that her voice doesn't quaver so. As for hate? Oh yes: Empaths can definitely feel hate. It's horrible. It rips you up on the way out, and rips you up when it is reflected back. Ugh. I wish it didn't exist, and yet it does, and I don't understand it's purpose, but it's definitely real and a part of life. Sort of like an emotional infection, best I can tell. And, like an infection, it can lead to gangrene, only it's a rot of the soul. It's such an ugly thing, but it can be healed. It definitely can be healed. And even though I'm in a strangely sour mood, and even though the sourness has been my mood so long that its very familiarity has become comforting, I'm glad to hear of the romances being formed. Even I had been feeling a faint breath of Hope on the air this Spring, and I haven't the slightest idea why. I mean, all around me, it looks like our society is going to hell in a handbasket (or perhaps a large runaway horse cart?), and there is damned little to be hopeful about. And yet, I am. Rather a strange counterpoint to my earlier rant about soulmates, isn't it? She turns introspective at this point.... Ok, Mike, give me something different. I mean really different. Make it good. Please. Mike comes up with a strange concoction made with fluids out of some very dusty bottles. The end result is difficult to actually focus on. Nothing quite like it has been seen in the Place before, and it is likely that a drink of this sort may never be seen again, either. Caprice puts a bill on the counter and sniffs at the drink approvingly. She downs it in a swift gulp and tosses the glass over her shoulder as she heads back out towards the door. Her aim is impeccable, and it of course hits the fireplace dead center. The words of her toast linger in the air a little while after she's left: "To Hope, that damnably tenacious good feeling thing that it is" -- More people would believe that cows really could jump over the moon if they didn't all burn up during re-entry. -- (stolen from somewhere on the net) Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!jls139 From: JLS139@psuvm.psu.edu (Abaddon) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Cynic; languages; and T-shirts? Message-ID: <90074.165352JLS139@psuvm.psu.edu> Date: 15 Mar 90 21:53:52 GMT Organization: Penn State University Lines: 36 Supercedes: 90074.121240JLS139@psuvm.psu.edu Abaddon looks up at the Cynics ravings. His eyes begin to glow more brightly. A puzzled from comes across his face. "Cynic, if you need help, you've chosen a strange way to show it. A simple request would have been sufficient - to attack other patron's good intentions is not the answer. On the other hand, if you aren't seeking help then maybe you'd better leave, 'though I won't be the one to ask you to go. I, like others who have posted in response, enjoy having a cynic around to present the opposition. Without an opposing viewpoint there is little point at discussion at all. If you do wish to leave, you may stay for some time in my world of shadows or you can visit anytime. Just cool off a bit first, it's hot enough as it is.:-)" Adressing the crowd at large: "Pochemu zdes nekotoryj iz nikh govorit po yazyki?" :-) On T-shirts: I have to agree with Betsy Bo, although I enjoy advertising my favorite interests on T-shirts as much as anyone, the idea seems a bit too commercial. Perhaps a mug/glass (shot glass?) with a simple Callahan's logo would be more appropriate? That way you could drink your toast with the real thing and it's something you could still bring to a party to show off. Oh yes and: 'The road to hell is "laved" with good intentions'? ^^^^^ That was a pour pun. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ...jeff stine......Abaddon... "fiery the angels fell..." ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM!jane From: jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM (Jane Beckman x4030) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Cynic, sigh... Message-ID: <9003151415.AA01683@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM> Date: 15 Mar 90 22:15:53 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 39 Jilara gets up and goes and gives Cynic a hug. He flinches, and she notes this with a look of covert understanding. She sighs. "Funny, I remember a person I once was, who was dead bent on getting herself a very bad rep in the SCA and hurting a lot of people to make them pay for some things they had done to me. Not the same people, mind you, but people I considered in the same ilk. Returning a negative favor. But then, I'd been social raped, had another try it as well, been majorly messed over, been treated very sadistically by another person (a vampire, all you empaths!). My friend Stewart listened to what I was singing as he passed by my camp (Pirate Jenny, from Threepenny Opera---"And they're scooping up the people and they're bringing them to me, asking ME kill 'em now or later!"), sat down and said "I think we want to talk." Put up with me swearing at him, being nasty in general, and generally being a nonjudgemental friend. He saved my soul, I figured later. I don't even like to think what I could have become, if he hadn't cared enough to talk to me. "That's what I think "turn the other cheek" was really about. Forget this meek and mild stuff, the real Jesus was tough and combative when he needed to be. To turn the other cheek, you've got to be strong. You don't just take it, and be a victim---you grab the guy's wrist when he goes to hit you and say "Okay, why do you want to hurt me? Why do you act this way? And show them there is something else." She starts to pace a bit, her arms folded behind her back. "Cynic is why I don't go to support groups. People get hostile and judgemental. I don't think I want to play by those rules. Someone here once said that I had the kind of life you want to wake up from. Believe me, if anyone should be cynical, I should be. I've learned, because I've been there, that you can survive just about anything. No one said life was fair." She turns and looks at Cynic with a penetrating gaze. "If I ever wanted to curse you, my friend, I could wish the life I've lived through upon you," she says softly. "Someone once said he liked me because I had been through so much that nothing phased me. He said it while he had a gun pointed at me, boasting he could kill me. My lack of reaction made him put it away. I have learned to live as a true samurai, as one dead, moment to moment, fearing few things because I've lived through what they can do. It gives you perspective." She gestures aside to Cynic. "Let's talk. Outside. You need to get out in the sunlight." ---Jilara the Exile jane%fsdcupt.csd@urbana.mcd.mot.com Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!decwrl!shelby!csli!cphoenix From: cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU (Chris Phoenix) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: The Cynic rants raves and rages Message-ID: <12699@csli.Stanford.EDU> Date: 15 Mar 90 22:40:32 GMT References: <9060039@hpfcso.HP.COM> Sender: cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU (Chris Phoenix) Reply-To: cphoenix@csli.stanford.edu (Chris Phoenix) Organization: Center for the Study of Language and Information, Stanford U. Lines: 179 In article <9060039@hpfcso.HP.COM> daq@hpfcso.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) writes: >"I am about to say some things that may get me kicked out >of this bar forever, but I am very perturbed, and I feel >the need. It is a policy never to flame. I will try >not to violate that rule, but I may not succeed." Well, I for one vote that you stay. Yes, you lost your temper and threw a grenade. I think everyone's entitled to one mistake. Or maybe two or three... goodness knows the rest of us make enough of them. Yes, your anger is legitimate. I certainly wouldn't kick you out for talking about it. That's what we're here for. Why are you here? You said you hoped you could find a place here. What kind of place are you looking for? Are you just looking for more witty conversation? Or are you actually hoping we can give you an answer? You've already rejected empathy, hope, and love, and I can't think of anything more we have to give! It's really frustrating, to see someone in your position and not be able to help him. I'm sure you'll say you're not looking for help, and you're fine the way you are. I ask again, why are you here? > ... It is going to be very sarcastic, but it does >have a purpose. I will leave Callahan's for good after >this post if enough people ask me to, since I may have >violated the spirit of the place." Well, actually I think you are violating the spirit of the Place. The spirit is "Shared pain is diminished, shared joy, increased." Taldin and Joelle and Jilara and Alaric have shared a lot of joy with us, and it hasn't increased your joy at all. You've shared your pain with us, but you won't let us try to decrease it. At least that's the way I see it. You've rejected all the ways I can think of that we can help you. I won't kick you out for it, but you may be kicking yourself out even while you're still sitting there. If you disbelieve in a Place enough, eventually it stops existing for you. >Greetings Joelle. I hope you stay a long time. I hope you and Taldin >provide each other with the happiness you seem to have found for >a very long time. But your wishes for my happiness are hurled into >a void. I have given up on happiness. What I want now is diversion. >What I want is amnesty and amnesia. I want fullfillment. Amnesia isn't fulfillment, it's emptiness! Think about what you're saying here. You have made your life empty of soulmates, happiness, love, and hope, and now you want fulfillment? Where are you going to look? You can't eat your cake if you don't have it in the first place, you know. Saying "I want fulfillment" is worse than saying "I want a soulmate"! Lots of people never find fulfillment. Lots of people don't even know what it is! But for most if not all of the people who find it, it is based on one of the things that you've rejected. First you have to figure out what you're looking for. Only then can you decide what you need, and maybe get help with finding it. I wish you luck, but luck won't help you. >>Taldin interrupts, "If I can find one..so can you!" > >Don't need anyone Tal baby. Keep saying that, maybe you'll believe it. Maybe you don't need anyone. Maybe you would be perfectly happy with a computer to program and an endless supply of junk food and pizza, and no people at all. I doubt it. If you honestly didn't need anyone, you wouldn't be so upset when other people found each other. I can understand you being upset, and I certainly don't blame you for it, but don't throw grenades and then try to tell people you're happy the way you are. Oh, you're not happy? Why not? It sounds like you have everything you need, and if you do then you should be happy, right? >You know Jilara, a few weeks ago you and Alaric were going on about >how Callahan's is not a singles bar. Well, apparently it is! No, it isn't. A singles bar is where people go to pick up other people. Callahan's is not that, and hopefully never will be. I hesitate to speak for Jilara and Alaric, but I'm reasonably sure that neither of them was looking for a soulmate when they came here. There's no law against meeting soulmates or partners here, any more than there is against meeting friends. What they were "going on about" was people who came to Callahan's for the sole purpose of meeting vulnerable people and making them partners. That is despicable, but apparently there were a few people who tried it. But it's not at all what happened with either of the Happy Couples here. At least, try not to lose your sense of fairness. >As for me, spring will be a few more three point baskets and a few >more steps down the road to skin cancer. Spring is here, spring is here, life is skittles and life is beer, I think the loveliest time of the year is the spring! But there's one thing that makes spring complete for me, and makes every Sunday a treat for me-- All the world seems in tune on a spring afternoon when we're poisoning pigeons in the park . . . Yes, spring means different things to different people. It's a lot more boring when you've cut all the fun emotions out of your life, isn't it? >Well merry christmas and fill my bloomers with concrete! Jilara, >there are still some dark spots in the center of the god damned >room. There are dark spots wherever their inhabitants want them to be. But do you intend to stay in the dark forever? I'm not pressuring you to come out of your shadow--Fast Eddie would kick me out quickly if I did--but I just want you to think about why you're in there, and how long you intend to stay. Yet another time: Why are you here? >>"*TO HAPPY COUPLES*" <*Crash*> > >Oh, all-fucking-RIGHT! I'll drink to it. But only because I >remember what it is like to be part of this exclusive club. >Also, I do wish them the best, and I am raging more at an >abstract than a concrete. "exclusive club"? Who is doing the excluding? Sounds like you've excluded yourself prettty thoroughly, but you're still blaming them. >When in high school I thought I had to be nice. It did not work. >When in college I thought I had to be open and sensitive. It did not >work. When I got older I realized that what was important was to >be callous, exploitative, and selfish. It works, but I lost interest. Too true! I'm almost inclined to ask permission to put it in my .signature, but I'm not *quite* that cynical yet. Just remember, there *are* people out there for whom being open, sensitive, and nice really will work better. They may not be worth finding, but most of us think they are. And you have a much better chance of being "fulfilled" (not to mention "finding a soulmate") if you do look for them. > ... I so >desperately want to tell them to organize their lives so that they >can be reasonably content without anyone, because there is no >insurance that they will find someone. I think that is why >I am so angry about this blatant celebration of success when >there is so much need left from people who post here. I think >that the celebrations might best if held a bit more discretely. >But my soul has become so dark that I may be totally wrong. I think in this case you're wrong. Remember, "Shared joy, increased". Many of us here are capable of deriving joy and pleasure from seeing other people happy, fulfilled, paired up, etc, and this joy overrides whatever bitterness we feel because we aren't (Yet--most of us still have hope). Yes, there's a lot of need here, but the celebration isn't ignoring that need or showing off. It's sharing, and it's a Good Thing. Asking people to celebrate more discreetly is against the "spirit of Callahan's", though again I can understand why you ask it. But I think it's part of the Place. I hope it doesn't make it uncomfortable for you to be here, but I don't think it's fair to ask us to mute our joy because joy hurts you. >Again, I really do not wish ill upon anyone, but I guess I really >am just different than even most of the posters in Callahan's. >I feel a great deal of frustration toward all of this exclusive >soul mate business with its inherent implication of, "hey, I >got mine, where is yours?" Yes, you do seem to be different from us. I hope you're not incompatible, but that's going to have to be your decision. I still can't see anything exclusive about soulmates. And I certainly don't see any trace of that implication. Try to be fair... >I remember back when I was going with Lyn, or Lynn, or Lynnn, >or whatever the fuck her name was, and I would see guys by >themselves, and I always felt this have and have not feeling >very strongly. I place my flag proudly and firmly among the >have nots. If they will not acknowledge me, then I place it >proudly and firmly for myself. Well, I'm a have not at the moment, and I acknowledge you. But I also think you're making things a lot harder for yourself, and you have a couple of inconsistencies in your world view. Work those out, and I think you'll be a lot better suited to face life. -- Chris Phoenix | "I've spent the last nine years structuring my cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU | life so that this couldn't happen." ...And I only kiss your shadow, I cannot see your hand, you're a stranger now unto me, lost in the dangling conversation, and the superficial sighs... Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM!jane From: jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM (Jane Beckman x4030) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Singles bar? Message-ID: <9003151520.AA02358@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM> Date: 15 Mar 90 23:20:21 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 11 Sometimes, you find you end up making ***FRIENDS***(tm) with someone, Cynic, anywhere. Sometimes something more evolves. Then there are the folks who cruise supermarkets, hoping to pick up on someone over the Perrier and romaine lettuce. But lettuce not bar possibilities of meeting a special someone when you least expect it. Of course this is a singles bar! What do you think we plop down to pay for drinks for toasts? ---Jilara the Exile