Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!ckd From: ckd@bu-pub.bu.edu (Christopher Davis) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: mail-to-news gateway info Message-ID: <44248@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Date: 9 Dec 89 09:54:37 GMT Sender: daemon@bu-cs.BU.EDU Reply-To: ckd@bu-pub.bu.edu (Christopher Davis) Distribution: alt Organization: Boston University School of Management Lines: 14 There is a mail-to-news gateway running at ucbvax.berkeley.edu for those of you who, like Jilara, may not be able to post directly. It's one-way (mail -> news) only, though. Mail to alt-callahans@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (or {stuff}!ucbvax!alt-callahans). Now back to your regularly scheduled interesting postings. --Chris -- Christopher Davis, BU SMG '90 "Many verbal attacks are part of someone's aim to establish their rank in a dominance hierarchy, the same sort of behavior common among nesting fowl." --Daniel Mocsny Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hp-pcd!hplabs!hplred!egly From: egly@hplred.HP.COM (Diana Egly) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: soulmates Message-ID: <20940007@hplred.HP.COM> Date: 7 Dec 89 00:21:35 GMT References: <43561@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA Lines: 22 "To Kathy who understood and offered a word for the relationship I've described" Spiritkin, as opposed to soulmate. A nice strong-sounding word. The nice sense of being eternal family together -- with only the positive senses of the word "family" included. Not at all an effete term. (I think of "kindred spirit" as being too effete for the relationship I've tried to describe.) Then a soulmate would be a special form of spiritkin -- where there is shared romantic interest and sexual chemistry as well as spiritkinship. Spiritkin can then be someone of either the appropriate or the inappropriate gender for one's sexual and romantic preferences. Which makes it the right sort of thing for the relationship I described. I love the expressive power of language, and people who use it creatively to give expression to our deepest experiences. "Mike, put a round of drinks for everyone on my tab." (I do have a tab, don't I? I'm not a time traveller after all...) "And make mine something with lots of mint and no alcohol -- in honor of the soothing effects of mint for those I know who are experiencing nausea..." Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!philmtl!philabs!ttidca!hollombe From: hollombe@ttidca.TTI.COM (The Polymath) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: A circus story (Long. Hit 'n' now if not interested.) Message-ID: <8342@ttidca.TTI.COM> Date: 9 Dec 89 04:00:37 GMT Reply-To: hollombe@ttidca.tti.com (The Polymath) Distribution: alt Organization: Citicorp/TTI, Santa Monica Lines: 121 The door opens and in from the night comes the Polymath. This time he's wearing a battered black leather jacket, worn nearly shapeless over 20 years of hard use, and an equally scruffy Malasian bush hat (courtesy of British army surplus). He carries a walking stick that looks like a shilelagh(sp?), but is actually made of western red cedar. "Greetings, one and all. No, this isn't a new persona. I actually dress this way when the weather warrants it. The stick's my mugger-discourager. I know I'm safe in Callahan's, but you never know what's lurking in the parking lot. It goes where I go." The hat and jacket take their places on the coat rack. "Bless me, Mike. Gilly has requested a story and I can hardly refuse her silver-tongued charm. (-; "Ahem! This is the true story of a day in the life of Del Graham's trapeze act. It concerns the one time I went with them on a one-night stand. "I'll take up the time line at 3:00 a.m. of a summer's morning nearly 20 years ago. I'd just arrived at Del's place, where everyone was already up and about. All the rigging had been torn down and loaded on the rented truck the day before and the girls are bustling around, snatching breakfast and doing last minute stuff before we get on our way. "4:00 a.m. Dawn. Everything's ready to go. Somehow, I'm appointed to drive the truck. As my first official act of the day I flood the carburetor. Del demonstrates that circus folk have remarkable vocabularies. (-: "4:10 a.m. Off we go. Del and Sandy are in the lead car. I'm following with the truck. Patty (I always think of her as Patty-the-catcher, but I'll shorten that for the net) is in the cab with me. The rest of the act are locked in the back of the truck, asleep on the high-fall padding. The ride to the show grounds is uneventful. "5:30 a.m. Arrive at the show grounds. Park the truck, wake up the act and start to unload. "6:00 a.m. Most of the rigging is out of the truck and we start to assemble it. This will be a 5+ hour job. Linda, the star, grabs a 12 foot section of aluminum pole and greases the end with vaseline(tm) prior to joining it with a similar section. There are 18 such sections in the trapeze rigging alone. "Come on, you pole jammers!," she shouts. We get to work. "6:15 a.m. Del is laying out locations for the tie-down stakes, pacing them off by eye and experience. I'm issued a sledge hammer and a pile of stakes. I'll spend most of the next 5 hours pounding them into the ground. So will Patty and one or two others. They're a lot better at it than I am. "Late-morning. We're ready to put up the trapeze rigging. The assembled poles are laid out and hooked together with steel cables. Then a team lifts each one vertical and holds it while the cables are tied to the stakes. Trapeze rigging is 35 feet tall and 75 to 90 feet long. It has to be aligned within 1/4 inch or the bars won't swing straight. Del does the rough leveling by putting wooden blocks under the poles, then fine tunes each pole with a level and jack. The guy wires are tightened with come-alongs until everything's straight and square. Then we put up the net. "[Side note: Del has a favorite story about why he uses a net: 'Every so often someone asks me, "What ever happened to that trapeze act? You know, the one that worked without a net." I always answer "Oh yeah! Them! They're all dead."'] "Afternoon. The web and high-fall rigging are up. That's about it 'til showtime. [Web is the technical name for the act where a woman climbs a rope and runs through a series of gyrations and poses to music at the top.] The girls run through a few practice leaps to test the rigging. Del appoints a gofer to get lunch (local junk food). Everyone takes a break. I walk around watching some of the other acts prepare. (A clown explains the use of a slapstick to his new assistant. Too much force and he can be hurt. Too little and it won't make any noise). "7:30 p.m. The crowd starts to trickle in. The girls go off to the ladies room to change into costume. I load my camera, clean the lens and test the flash. Del turns on the lights in the rigging. "8:00 p.m. It's showtime! We and several other acts run through our paces. Everything goes well. The crowd likes us. I get some photos. "9:30 p.m. See 8:00 p.m. [Two shows a night.] "10:00 p.m. Time to start tearing down. This will be a 2+ hour job. I'm again issued a sledge hammer. I learn that pulling stakes is just as hard as pounding them in. Eventually, everything's back on the truck. "12:30 a.m. Time to head home. I don't flood the carburetor this time. Otherwise the ride home is much the same as the ride out, except for a stop for gas. "2:00 a.m. Arrive home. Everyone out of the truck and off to bed. I say my good nights and head home. "If you've been counting, you'll notice this has been a 24 hour day for a one night stand. Now try to imagine doing 5 a week for six weeks in a row on the road. And you thought the circus was glamorous. (-: "Give me another, Mike. That's thirsty work, even if I am much enamored of the sound of my own voice. "Well, I think I'll put a cork in it for a few days, at least. I've been using more than my share of Callahan's bandwidth and I'm sure others have plenty to share. (Besides, my boss prefers I get _some_ work done around here (-: ). I've also about run out of circus stories that don't have too much 'you had to be there' in them. Thanks for listening. I hope I haven't been too much of a bore. "Gilly, thanks for asking. I don't often get an excuse to ramble on like that. (-: (One nice thing about an electronic bar. I can blab all I want and not disturb anyone else's conversation)." -- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, hollombe@ttidca.tti.com) Illegitimis non Citicorp(+)TTI Carborundum 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 450-9111, x2483 Santa Monica, CA 90405 {csun | philabs | psivax}!ttidca!hollombe Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!snorkelwacker!apple!rutgers!njin!princeton!phoenix!jwbirdsa From: jwbirdsa@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (James Webster Birdsall) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Rules and masks Keywords: Rules masks interconnectedness Message-ID: <12085@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> Date: 9 Dec 89 19:38:47 GMT Organization: Princeton University, NJ Lines: 86 The scarecrow with the green cloak (whose fangs have mysteriously disappeared) is sitting at a table having a wonderful conversation when he hears a the word "backrubs" float by. He rewinds the thread and listens to Chris's don't-follow-these rules and Shadow's reaction. Then he stands up... "Chris said: > ...Touching people, especially women, is a >violation. Offering backrubs, for example, is one of the scariest things >you can do, and even if they accept--and enjoy it--they will probably become >scared of you later. All I can say about this one is 'Aha! aha! So thaaaat's what happened!' It's a silly rule, but at least it's an explanation for something that happened recently. "For the rest of my commentary, I'll turn it over to Mr. Spock, who is far better qualified to speak on the subject than I..." He sits down on the edge of the table and looks toward the corner. The other scarecrow, who had nearly faded out, fades back in again and walks to where Vampire is sitting. "I'm more qualified to speak on the subject because I started out as a mask. Since then I've grown. No matter what mood the underlying processor is in -- whether it's closer to me or to him," inclining his head toward Vampire," -- it's irrepressibly _different_. Now I'm more of the logical half of things, and there are a lot of subjects that you just _can't_ be reasonable about it public. The entire set of rules is pretty illogical. "As I said, I started life as a simple implementation of as many rules as the original could figure out. Most of them were either unknown or there was just no way he could deal with them, so I also was in charge of being invisible. After all, if nobody knows you're there, you can't be breaking any rules, right? "Now I'm more than that. But I still retain the rules. After three years, I've finally put in enough hacks that I can drop them as necessary. But it took a lot of work, and I think I'd have been better off if I'd never had to implement them in the first place. "But there's still one rule that I'm stuck with. I hate its guts, but I've never yet figured a way around it. It's one that Shadow brought up: > And never actively seek others out, or call them on the phone >without a specific, and brief, purpose in mind. If you run into someone, fine, >as long as it doesn't last too long. If you happen to be in the same place, >you may converse, following the above guidelines. This rule causes me more hell, these days, than all the others put together! I have friends -- real friends -- and that's fine. But just TRY meeting new ones. Especially women." Vampire, who now has his fangs back, breaks in. "You got that one right. The amount of time and energy this rule wastes is staggering. The maneuvering required to engineer such incidents is positively byzantine. Worse, it often doesn't work. The maneuvering is fragile -- lots more ways for something to NOT happen than for it to happen -- and there are lots of uncontrollable variables wandering around. So you have to think of multiple backup plans. Fallback points. Welcome to the world of n-layer hyperthink. Doublethink just isn't sophisticated enough anymore." "OK, that's enough rambling commentary," Spock breaks in. "Time to contribute something new to this discussion. "It strikes me that what people really want is _consistency_. How can you deal with somebody who never says the same thing twice? It's not really possible. Hell, I want consistency myself, for the same reasons. It's tough for me to think when my attitudes keep changing every few minutes. And if _I_ can't deal with myself, how is anybody else supposed to? So one of my other attributes is to maintain a certain consistency of thought. "For example: last spring, I was involved in a long-distance relationship, if I may call it such. I thought she was wonderful. But then summer came. Eight thousand miles (roughly) cuts communication down to pretty much zero. Naturally, my feelings began to fade. But did this mean that I was any less interested in her? Not really, because I knew that as soon as I talked to her again, it would all come back. This is the way I work, for better or worse. So, when I wrote letters to her, I considered how I 'should' feel and what would be appropriate to say given that emotional state, and it worked fine. "This is not to say that it shouldn't be possible for people to change their minds. It is and should be. But such a change should be a considered thing, or, if it has to be based purely on emotions, it should be based on _pertinent_ emotions. My feelings on subject X shouldn't be affected because subject Y has given me a bad day. "Of course, the rules don't just produce consistency. But a certain consistency is necessary; there must be some rhyme and reason." -- James W. Birdsall jwbirdsa@phoenix.Princeton.EDU jwbirdsa@pucc.BITNET ...allegra!princeton!phoenix!jwbirdsa Compu$erve: 71261,1731 "For it is the doom of men that they forget." -- Merlin Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!psuvax1!rutgers!njin!princeton!phoenix!jwbirdsa From: jwbirdsa@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (James Webster Birdsall) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Poisoned Warm Fuzzies? Message-ID: <12086@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> Date: 9 Dec 89 19:41:06 GMT Organization: Princeton University, NJ Lines: 58 The Spock scarecrow slowly fades out, and the Vampire scarecrow with the green cloak loses his fangs. "This is me, the gestalt personality. I'm actually like this most of the time. I use Spock and Vampire here because they illustrate certain points better than I can alone... "Anyway, while I've got your attention, I've got a toast I'd like to make." He walks up to the bar and collects a Toasted Almond. "There's been a lot of talk here about Warm Fuzzies. Now, Warm Fuzzies are a great thing. I wish I had more. But one thing strikes me about them. I may be wrong, but from what I've heard, Warm Fuzzies are supposed to be purely altruistic. Given from sheer love of humanity in all its forms. "I give out Warm Fuzzies, as well. But I'm never so sure exactly WHY I'm doing it. You've got to admit that Warm Fuzzies make a good tactical weapon. "To clarify a bit: suppose you give Warm Fuzzies to someone for no particular reason. They may say to themselves -- whether consciously or unconsciously doesn't matter -- 'Gee, he's a nice guy and would make a good friend.' And I'm always stuck wondering whether I'm giving Fuzzies out because I _am_ a nice guy or whether I'm doing it in a Machiavellian sense, just because I need friends. "Of course, this goes double for potential romantic relationships, and this is where the ethical problems really kick in. Am I being guilty of false advertising? "Some of this problem stems from that fact that I cannot, I will not, accept Vampire's instant targeting locks. This is something I've noticed a lot of you people doing, also, especially in the mail I've gotten. Think about it: you don't know a bloody thing about me except what I've posted here. For all you know, I could be making it all up as I go along! I could be using you people. "I'm not, but you really have only my word to prove it. "Anyway, how can you claim to be my friend when you know so little about me? The only way it makes sense is if you mean 'friend' as shallowly as the people who have been so recently denounced here. "I have proven in the past that I'm NOT a good judge of character. And I will not claim to be a friend unless I MEAN it. So, perforce, I must wait until I have some idea what the other person is all about. This isn't to say that I still don't make mistakes, but they're subtle ones and take a long time to surface. "To return to the main point: while I'm still deciding about somebody, I have to maintain their interest somehow. And it seems to be the way the world works that Warm Fuzzies are the only way to do it. So I'm stuck giving out Warm Fuzzies and hoping that my rational evaluation matches Vampire's emotional reaction. And no matter how I slice that, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth called 'False Pretenses.' "But I just can't figure any way around it. So I'm forced to toast Confusion. May it go away soon." He hurls the glass into the fireplace as hard as he can. "In the meantime, you have been warned, which is the only thing I can think of to do." He grimly stalks back to his chair, hoping that the aftermath won't be too bad. But at least he's done the right thing... -- James W. Birdsall jwbirdsa@phoenix.Princeton.EDU jwbirdsa@pucc.BITNET ...allegra!princeton!phoenix!jwbirdsa Compu$erve: 71261,1731 "For it is the doom of men that they forget." -- Merlin Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!snorkelwacker!usc!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!njin!princeton!phoenix!jmdoyle From: jmdoyle@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jennifer Doyle) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Interconnectedness Message-ID: <12089@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> Date: 9 Dec 89 20:10:37 GMT References: <11960@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <12007@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <12058@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <11364@csli.Stanford.EDU> Reply-To: jmdoyle@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jennifer Mary Doyle) Distribution: usa Organization: or, conversely, Chaos: Lines: 50 In <11364@csli.Stanford.EDU> cphoenix@csli.stanford.edu (Chris Phoenix) writes: >In <12058@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> jmdoyle@phoenix.Princeton.EDU I write: >>But I have a hard time saying "You >>make me uncomfortable" or "Please don't touch me" or "I need to talk about >>our relationship with one another". It is easier to maintain the status quo >>than go out on a limb, and that's what I tend to do. I never really felt I >>was being dishonest, or bad, I felt I was doing the right thing. I'm >>beginning to think that honesty doesn't precede friendship, and friendship >>doesn't precede honesty, but that when you've found one, you've found the >>other. >I know, it is hard to be open. I'm not saying you should suddenly tear off >the mask and go defenseless--that would be too much to ask. I am saying that >if someone doesn't already have a mask in place, he should not try to build >one, but instead find places where he doesn't need to use it. Yes, this means >that if you can't be comfortable with maskless people, you will be excluded. >And it means that if you're in a group full of people who can't be comfortable >we may not have the resources it takes to find you. And it means that we will >very likely be bitter toward you--without meaning to, you have kept us on the >social fringes for years. Now I feel I have to add something else. The reason I *have* a mask, and the reason I hide is because I've been there too. Imagine being in third grade, when kids are cruelest, and being too tall, too smart, shy, and always rubbing at your runny nose because you were too shy to ask for a tissue. I *hated* third grade. It wasn't until I switched schools that things got better, but even then I had a hard time. I'm tall, I don't like to party on the weekends and get drunk, I'm just not a social butterfly. I read a lot, SF and fantasy mostly, I'm an RPGamer, I'm *not* your stereotypical socialite highschool girl. Add to that the fact that I *don't* want to take chances with anything as scary as people, and you get someone who's not got a lot of friends. Then I got to college. There's various stories in that, which I won't go into. Now, finally, I have a group of friends I feel very close to. But the mask is still there. I feel it has to be sometimes, that if I showed some of the intensity I feel, I'd scare people off. And perhaps the person who sees the mask most is the one I consider my closest friend. There are feelings I *won't* show him, for fear of losing him. And yes, I do want to keep him. I'm just trying to say that I'm not "them" where you all are "we", all of us are in this together. Maybe a lot of people with those masks that you [general you] are bitter towards have been hurt themselves, and they don't know the mask is up, they don't realize they've changed. I know someone who's mask has been in place for so long, she has no idea it exists. The masked people are not bad guys, they may be the ones who will understand best if you can get through. Jen -- "Make mine a root beer, Mike. Thanks. To communication! " ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jennifer Doyle // Princeton '92 // jmdoyle@phoenix.princeton.edu Disclaimer: I am a student, I represent the future. Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!shelby!csli!cphoenix From: cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU (Chris Phoenix) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Poisoned Warm Fuzzies? Message-ID: <11370@csli.Stanford.EDU> Date: 10 Dec 89 01:48:47 GMT References: <12086@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> Sender: cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU (Chris Phoenix) Reply-To: cphoenix@csli.stanford.edu (Chris Phoenix) Organization: Center for the Study of Language and Information, Stanford U. Lines: 68 In article <12086@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> jwbirdsa@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (James Webster Birdsall) writes: > "I give out Warm Fuzzies, as well. But I'm never so sure exactly WHY >I'm doing it. You've got to admit that Warm Fuzzies make a good tactical >weapon. > "To clarify a bit: suppose you give Warm Fuzzies to someone for no >particular reason. They may say to themselves -- whether consciously or >unconsciously doesn't matter -- 'Gee, he's a nice guy and would make a >good friend.' And I'm always stuck wondering whether I'm giving Fuzzies >out because I _am_ a nice guy or whether I'm doing it in a Machiavellian >sense, just because I need friends. One possible way to tell: Do you start giving out fewer warm fuzzies when you start to feel like you have enough friends? Do you give warm fuzzies to people who you don't have much chance of being friends with? (other tourists on vacation, for example.) If so, then you're not just doing it to make friends. > "Of course, this goes double for potential romantic relationships, >and this is where the ethical problems really kick in. Am I being guilty >of false advertising? > "Some of this problem stems from that fact that I cannot, I will not, >accept Vampire's instant targeting locks. This is something I've noticed >a lot of you people doing, also, especially in the mail I've gotten. I think part of this is just being too idealistic--being too quick to believe that the target will return your invitation of friendship. One of my axioms, I guess, is that any two people who want to can be friends. This may not be true. But since I believe that, then if I want to be friends with someone and he wants to be friends with me, I consider us friends. Of course, he may not really want to... I've been burned by that several times. >Think about it: you don't know a bloody thing about me except what I've >posted here. For all you know, I could be making it all up as I go >along! I could be using you people. > "I'm not, but you really have only my word to prove it. > "Anyway, how can you claim to be my friend when you know so little >about me? The only way it makes sense is if you mean 'friend' as >shallowly as the people who have been so recently denounced here. Ouch. You're right, of course. I guess all I can say is that I use "friend" to mean someone who I think I'm going to feel that way about, as well as someone I already do. And I treat my future-friends pretty much the same way I treat my real- friends. I don't expect nearly as much from them, of course. But I am honest with them, I help them if they ask for it, I care about them... I honestly believe that this is the way I am anyway, that I'm not doing this in order to make them be friends with me--at least not exclusively. And you're right that you could be deceiving us. In that case, my friendship would have gone out to something that doesn't exist, and so it would have been wasted--but I think that doesn't change the fact that my actions were actions of friendship. > "To return to the main point: while I'm still deciding about >somebody, I have to maintain their interest somehow. And it seems to be >the way the world works that Warm Fuzzies are the only way to do it. So >I'm stuck giving out Warm Fuzzies and hoping that my rational evaluation >matches Vampire's emotional reaction. And no matter how I slice that, >it leaves a bad taste in my mouth called 'False Pretenses.' Do you give out Warm Fuzzies only to friends, then? It's just my nature to give them out to anyone who will accept them--and who isn't too unpleasant to be around. I don't see how giving out warm fuzzies to your future-friends is false pretenses. Can you explain some more? -- Chris Phoenix | A harp is a nude piano. cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU | "More input! More input!" Life is the only game in which the object of the game is to learn the rules. Disclaimer: I want a kinder, gentler net with a thousand pints of lite. Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!shelby!csli!cphoenix From: cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU (Chris Phoenix) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Interconnectedness Message-ID: <11372@csli.Stanford.EDU> Date: 10 Dec 89 05:06:09 GMT References: <11960@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <12007@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <12058@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <11364@csli.Stanford.EDU> <12089@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> Sender: cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU (Chris Phoenix) Reply-To: cphoenix@csli.stanford.edu (Chris Phoenix) Distribution: usa Organization: Center for the Study of Language and Information, Stanford U. Lines: 78 In article <12089@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> jmdoyle@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jennifer Mary Doyle) writes: >Now I feel I have to add something else. The reason I *have* a mask, and the >reason I hide is because I've been there too. I know. I think that's why most people put on masks--to get along with other people. I don't blame you for doing it--I started to do it myself, and I think I'm lucky I realized in time, and had enough other friends that I could afford to be maskless. >Now, finally, I have a group of friends I feel very close to. But the >mask is still there. I feel it has to be sometimes, that if I showed some of >the intensity I feel, I'd scare people off. And perhaps the person who sees >the mask most is the one I consider my closest friend. There are feelings I >*won't* show him, for fear of losing him. And yes, I do want to keep him. That's what I've been saying--that intensity and masklessness will scare some people off. There's a distinction I should have made long ago, and I'm sorry I didn't think to say it. I'm not upset at people who wear a mask. I'm upset at people who can't deal with maskless people. I guess it's just that the two traits are often closely linked. I probably will find it hard to get close to you if you wear a mask all the time, but I don't get angry with anyone who wears a mask--I just feel sort of sorry for them, and wish they could take it off. What I get angry at is when someone rejects me just because I'm not wearing a mask. This is what I've been yelling about all the past few days--I'm being rejected because I don't want to wear this mask that I have no use for, and that is totally foreign to who I am. Yes, I think masks are bad-- but what I don't like is the way people require me to wear them. >... I'm >just trying to say that I'm not "them" where you all are "we", all of us are >in this together. Yes, my use of 'we' and 'them' was rather harsh. I do see a rather large schism, though, between people who don't have masks (since I'm one of us, I said 'we') and people who can't tolerate us (what can I call them but 'them'?) These are the people I was 'them'ing--I don't try to cut off everyone who has a mask, just everyone who will reject me for not having one. As I said, can you blame me for rejecting them first? >Maybe a lot of people with those masks that you [general >you] are bitter towards have been hurt themselves, and they don't know the >mask is up, they don't realize they've changed. I know someone who's mask has >been in place for so long, she has no idea it exists. The masked people are >not bad guys, they may be the ones who will understand best if you can get >through. I think the key is in the way I read your second sentence. " Maybe a lot of people with [those masks that you are bitter towards]." See the difference? Putting on masks is a bad thing to have to do, but I don't think that people who do it are bad--I know they've been hurt themselves, except for the few who got the masks up even before they needed them. And what I am hoping for-- the reason I've been writing all this--is that I *am* trying to get through. Actually, I'm aiming it at two different groups, although they do seem to overlap a lot (and this is what makes me wary of anyone with a mask): For people who are wearing the mask, to realize what the mask may be doing to them, and to realize that they don't always need it. For people who are afraid of maskless people, to realize exactly what their fear is based on, and hopefully to try to overcome it. Now that I think about it some more, maybe overusing masks will cause you to be afraid of maskless people. Remember my story about being touched at a party? After only two months of a mask, I was actually afraid to be touched. I'd like you (and all of you) to answer 2 more questions. I'm not asking you to tell me the answers, but answer them and think about them, and whether you're happy with the answers. If you knew that your friend wanted you to drop your mask, and that he wouldn't be scared when you did, would you be able to do it? Would you want to do it? If your friend suddenly dropped his mask, would you be afraid of him? -- Chris Phoenix | A harp is a nude piano. cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU | "More input! More input!" Life is the only game in which the object of the game is to learn the rules. Disclaimer: I want a kinder, gentler net with a thousand pints of lite. Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!shelby!polya!lucid.com!lucidboston!kdo From: kdo@lucid.com (Ken Olum) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Group Relationships Summary: just another possibility Message-ID: <140@boston-harbor.lucid.com> Date: 10 Dec 89 19:57:32 GMT References: <1989Dec3.191415.7367@cs.swarthmore.edu> Reply-To: kdo@lucid.com Organization: Lucid East, Sharon MA Lines: 74 I'm afraid I've been out in the real world for a while, and haven't been able to make it in to the Place. Fortunately here in cyberspace time doesn't work quite the same way, and Jeff Hildebrand's words are just as fresh as if he'd said them yesterday. In article <1989Dec3.191415.7367@cs.swarthmore.edu> hildebrd@cs.swarthmore.edu () writes: > "It started very simply. There were four of us.... Of the four > students, there were three men and one woman. It was spring, we were >having fun, and it was inevitable what happened. > "Relationships are what happened. She started going out with one of the >other men, then broke up. A few days before the fifth and final gathering, she >and I talked and a start at a relationship was made there. Then came the wild, >crazy summer." > . . . >I had for the first time in my life fallen wildly in love. But the >old relationship between her and the other guy sprang back up. We had >a triangle going.... > "So here I stand. The closely knit circle we wove last spring has >disintegrated. I have a similar story to tell, and maybe you can see a bit more of where I'm coming from. I had my first real romantic involvement when I was a freshman in college. Unfortunately she got involved with someone else as well. She didn't want to give either of us up, but we weren't very good at dealing with this kind of thing, and it got pretty unpleasant at times. Well, this someone else was involved with yet another person, who was also involved with still other people, and it went on and on in a long chain of confusion. She and I were honest with each other, which wasn't the case for everyone in the chain, but even so I was pretty unhappy. So, when another women showed some interest in me I felt free to respond and soon this chain of relationships extended on both sides. In the end I decided that the situation was too stressful, and chose this new person and broke off my original relationship. With time passing the of chain people collapsed into pairs or single people. This was long ago and far away, and many relationships have formed and dissolved since then. But wait. Today my best friend is the person I was first involved with. We live together in a group house, and we aren't lovers. We didn't get back together as a couple, although we talk about it sometimes, but we're very important to each other and we get a whole lot out of each other's friendship. I've had lovers, and I might like to get married someday, but in my experience its real friendships like this that last and that make the difference. If you have friends like this you are blessed, and if your lovers are friends like this you are doubly blessed. Since all this I've grown a lot and learned a lot about the way that things can be, and I know there are more possibilites now. Romantic relationships don't have to be pairs. There are open relationships but there are also group relationships, and just because someone is involved with someone else doesn't mean you can't be involved with them as well, and really be a group of 3 or 4 or however many you have. I haven't actually been in such a relationship, but I know people who have and who say that having to choose one person would never work for them. I open to such relationships and I feel a kinship with them because I live in a group of friends. What's important to me is a "closely knit circle of friends" as Jeff says, and I think a closely knit circle of lovers would work for me as well. Jeff, I don't know if this would have worked for your group, but something about your description made me feel I should mention it. It isn't right for everybody, and it isn't easy, but one of the more important things I've learned in my life is to be tolerant and open. It's easier to find what's right for you if you know all the things that can be in the world. All of this and I see I don't even have a drink. A glass of milk, if you please, and I'll collect my change. Ken Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!rex!ames!amelia!eos!woody From: woody@eos.UUCP (Wayne Wood) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Masks Keywords: Masks are nothing but illusions. Message-ID: <5798@eos.UUCP> Date: 10 Dec 89 21:10:00 GMT References: <44204@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Reply-To: woody@eos.UUCP (Wayne Wood) Distribution: alt Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Calif. Lines: 44 the door opens and in walks a stranger. he shakes the snow from his mane of hair and brushes it from his beard. he walks to the bar, flips down his VA check and says, "tequila, tell me when the check is exhausted...". he accepts the tumbler of amber liquid and toes the line. "to the past that might have been, to the future that may never be..." the story: you may remember me from before, i made a toast to those who have gone before. i have been standing outside, listening, since the saloon opened. now i think i can add my thoughts to the collective mind. we all wear masks to protect us from real or imagined dangers in the real world. some times these masks are beneficial, and sometimes they save us from the pain of reality. but other times they prevent us from showing our innermost selves to those who may change us. as long as we fear, we may use the mask as a shield. it provides us the security of our solitude. when the security of that solitude is preferrable to the uncertainty of reality, then there is a serious problem. speaking only for myself, i created a past i could live with because i couldn't bear the memories of my real past. this was detrimental to my future. i am now able to face the pain of my past and now it has helped me to create a multitude of possible futures for myself. this is the key... we are, to some extent, the experiences that have brought us to this point. denial of those experiences controls our future... "better safe than sorry" ... but we must learn from our past to create and control our future. REFLECT ON YOUR PAST, EXPERIENCE YOUR PRESENT, CONTROL YOUR FUTURE... please reserve your masks for those you may not trust, but with those worthy of your trust, remove the mask and share the real you. i down the tequila, grimace from the bite, then reach out and gently place the tumbler on the hearth. i turn, scan the room, move to an empty {dark} corner, and wait. /*** woody **************************************************************** *** ...tongue tied and twisted, just an earth bound misfit, I... *** *** -- David Gilmour, Pink Floyd *** ****** woody@eos.arc.nasa.gov *** my opinions, like my mind, are my own ******/