Newsgroups: alt.callahans Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!bloom-beacon!athena.mit.edu!erspert From: erspert@athena.mit.edu (Ellen R. Spertus) Subject: Re: Come on in! Message-ID: <1989Dec12.011148.17238@athena.mit.edu> Sender: root@athena.mit.edu (Wizard A. Root) Reply-To: erspert@athena.mit.edu (Ellen R. Spertus) Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology References: <9368@microsoft.UUCP> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 89 01:11:48 GMT Lines: 98 In article <9368@microsoft.UUCP> t-phils@microsoft.UUCP (the Eternal Stranger) writes: >"I know you're out there, Ellen," he calls; "Come on in and join us! >It's much warmer in here...." A young woman outside sheepishly looks toward him, blushes slightly, and walks closer to the entrance. >"Mike," he says, "when the young lady who's lurking outside wondering >whether to come in makes up her mind and comes in, kindly inform her >that her first one's on me...." With that, he returns to his table >and resumes the conversation, idly scratching the tabbifli's back as >he speaks. She enters. "Thank you," she said. "I don't ordinarily let men buy me drinks (sometime I'll tell you the story about when I did), but I'm sure you'll let me reciprocate sometime. Mike, could you make that a Shirley Temple?" Mike hands her the drink, clearly glad that she didn't ask for anything alcoholic. He can't tell whether she's legal or not. Alaric throws a coin in the air, which changes into a bird, flies over to Mike, and becomes a dollar bill. Ellen takes the drink and sits next to Alaric. She removes her backpack and her coat, smoothing the snowflakes out of her wavy brown hair. Alaric smiles and motions for her to make a toast. "Hello. It's true that I've been lurking. In a rare act of sociality on my part, I had recently emailed Phil to introduce myself. For two summers, we had been co-workers at the same company and have been on several specialized lists in common. I've never met him. I had considered stoppping by his office last summer when he added something about rescuing damsels in distress to his sig file -- unfortunately I was in distress then -- but I never did it. After a few messages, he sent me the description of alt.callahans which wowed me enough for me to immediately begin reading it and the Callahan books. I started writing a toast about my problems, with some wonderful phrases in it, as can only come from months and years of dwelling on a thought without speaking, but I never posted it. Instead, I would like to make a toast to friendship and communication. Hmmm. I'm not sure that means what I want. What I mean to say is the kind of openness that lets strangers talk to each other and stop being strangers, and lets friends grow closer. "It's funny how inhibited most people are. Once when my cousin's children were over, the little girl danced in front of the TV along with the kids on Sesame Street. I knew that within a few years she would lose that sense of freedom. I remember in kindergarten that one boy was teased for admitting to still watch Sesame Street -- and I knew that the girl who was making fun of him still watched Sesame Street herself. I don't generally idolize innocence, but it is clear that people have lost so much, even by six. "Although the net as a whole increases the amount of communication, it is not clear that real communication is fostered. In most of the groups, you post an honest question or opinion and get attacked. I have enough stress in my off-line life, without adding to it here. Finding out about alt.callahans really improves my optimism about dealing with other people. It's so good to find there are others who still talk and who are more interested in being sympathetic than in attacking someone. If anyone could explain to me why people flame, I would be interested in hearing. "I have been lucky enough to find a soulmate. I have never believed in astrology, but because he was born only one day away from me, I am tempted to start. They must have used the same soul. I do have difficulty meeting people, however, and I never managed to replace my last boyfriend. I live off-campus and spend my evenings and weekends working, so that makes things difficult, along with that I prefer to be with my best friend or to read rather than to meet new people, particularly if it involves making small talk. I went through a depression and burn-out in the last few weeks, and I decided to spend less time working and more time living. So I am probably like some of you, a sensitive romantic quasi-nerd who is trying to meet people. "So, here's to friendliness and communication, and to meeting people who feel as I do." She tosses the glass into the fireplace, and her face changes from solemn to a grin, and she says: "As long as I've got your attention, can anyone tell me why they call *s (asterisks) 'hale's?" In a moment, Ellen says, "Because Nathan Hale was the guy who regretted he had but one asterisk for his country!" She giggles amid the laughs and groans, looks guiltily at the liberal arts types who fear a round of nerd jokes, and heads back to her seat by Alaric. "Thanks again for inviting me in. I hope that my presence here can be of some help to you -- no, I hope that you won't need any help." With that she quiets, begins listening to the restarting conversation at the table, and suppresses her initial urge to pry Alaric for computer industry gossip. Tonight is a night for people. Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!gilly From: gilly@bucsf.bu.edu (Gilly Rosenthol) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Montreal Message-ID: <44408@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Date: 12 Dec 89 01:25:38 GMT References: <19178@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Sender: daemon@bu-cs.BU.EDU Reply-To: gilly@bucsf.bu.edu (Gilly Rosenthol) Organization: Boston University Lines: 40 In-reply-to: jmsankey@rose.waterloo.edu's message of 11 Dec 89 21:10:41 GMT Gilly walks sadly to the bar to claim another of the whisky glasses. She raises the glass in the air, and looks at the flames through it, as though searching for an answer somewhere in their fire. "Usually, when I hear about news like that, I can at least think, oh well, it's awful, but at least it couldn't be me." She shakes her head. "That sounds really callous. I don't mean that I don't care, I just mean for my own peace of mind, I have to know that I'm safe, that it could never be me. But this... It has to do with a lot of issues I've been dealing with lately. I've been taking a women's studies course this semester, and I've finally come to accept the fact that I am a feminist. It's a hard thing to admit, sometimes, because there are a lot of people, some of them my friends, who have difficulty dealing with that label." She pauses for a sip of whisky, and it is unclear whether her grimace is from the bitterness of the drink or her thoughts. "I don't know how much of what I heard is accurate. I saw the news the day it happened, and I haven't heard anything much since then. But I did hear that this murderer's target was women." Gilly is looking shaken. She looks around the room for support. "It's sort of the same way I feel about the Holocaust. If I had been there, *that* *would* *have* *been* *me*. That's a really scary thought." She shakes her head, as though to clear away the fear and sorrow. "I'm sorry. This was meant to be a toast to those women in Montreal. But it's just as much for all of us women who have to be afraid of rape every time we walk the streets alone. And for those women who are afraid to say "no" to sexual harrassment on the job, or in the home. And to women who are forced to have unwanted abortions, or not allowed to have wanted ones." She casts an apologetic glance to any pro-life people in the Place, but does not retract her sentence. "Here's to women everywhere, oppressed - or killed - in any way, because of that second stupid X chromosome." And thinking of the stupidity of it all, she hurls the glass into the fireplace, where the shards of glass glisten like tears. -- +--------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+ | Gilly Rosenthol |"Don't dream it, be it" -The Rocky Horror Picture Show | | gilly@bucsb.bu.edu |"On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. | | | L'essentiel est invisible aux yeux." -Le Petit Prince | +--------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+ Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!snorkelwacker!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!gem.mps.ohio-state.edu!lavaca.uh.edu!elroy!cosc5sh From: cosc5sh@elroy.uh.edu (Unbeliever) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: The Awakening Message-ID: <5192.258417ca@elroy.uh.edu> Date: 12 Dec 89 03:10:34 GMT Organization: The Land Lines: 41 Unbeliever awakens from his deep diamondrought slumber. He raises his head from the bar, and looks around sheepishly. He sees Phoenix, Jilara, Diana, and others, in different parts of the room, looking up at him in concern. Recalling the night he came in and bared his soul, he grimaces, wondering who heard, or remembers. He doesn't like being so vulnerable, even in the warm, friendly atmosphere of Callahan's. He feels better, though. The combination of diamondrought and understanding seems to have healed him slightly, or at least numbed the pain. He skakes off the remaining stupor, and pulls some bills from his back pocket. He hands them to Mike, whispers something in his ear, and takes the four mugs he is given and carries them (precariously, due to his half-hand) to an empty table in the middle of the room, and motions for his new-found friends to join him. When they arrive, he hands them each a drink, raises his, and begins to speak: "To Phoenix: Thank you for showing me that I am not insane; that I need not think I am mistaken in my beliefs and interpretations... To Jilara and Diana: Thank you for caring enough to write. I hope my replies got through (I still have them, if they didn't)... To the rest of you: Thank you for listening to me ramble. I won't forget..." He swallows his drink and waits. The others start to swallow, and a surprised look comes over their faces. "Eggnog", the Unbeliever proclaims. "The most perfect drink ever devised. To spoil it with alcohol is a crime!" His ring glows white as he finishes the eggnog, and explodes with color as he cries, "Melenkurion Abatha!" The center of attention, he hurls his mug at the fireplace. *CRASH* "May we all find Peace". His ring continues to glow lightly as he seats himself and calls for more eggnog. BBB EEEE TTTTT RRR U U EEEE B B E T R R U U E BBB EEE T RRR U U EEE B B E T R R U U E BBB EEEE T R R UU EEEE +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |InterNet: cosc5sh@elroy.uh.edu UUCP:...texbell!uhnix1!elroy.uh.edu!cosc5sh | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!lll-winken!uwm.edu!mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!dgp.toronto.edu!doc From: doc@dgp.toronto.edu (Blaine Price) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Montreal Message-ID: <1989Dec11.222957.4389@jarvis.csri.toronto.edu> Date: 12 Dec 89 03:29:57 GMT References: <19178@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Lines: 14 As another lurker, I'll come out of the corner for this one and take a shot. "To all who have lost their lives to the random violence of the insane -- may they rest in peace. And may society begin to help people _before_ they bring harm to others." This is getting far too somber for Callahan's. Is it Tuesday yet? _doc ---- Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!lakesys!davek From: davek@lakesys.lakesys.com (Dave Kraft) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: A Toast Keywords: A Toast Message-ID: <1415@lakesys.lakesys.com> Date: 12 Dec 89 02:44:24 GMT Organization: Lake Systems - Milwaukee, Wisconsin Lines: 27 Mike, a mug of cocoa with a shot of your finest rum, if you would. [puts a dollar on the bar] I'd like to make this toast to a stress-free end-of-semester and holiday season. As each day brings us to the end of our semester (last one for me, I graduate at the end of December), and nearer and nearer to Christmas, the pace quickens to a frenzy, trying to find the 'perfect' gift for that special someone or SO, trying to finish off the last class requirement, etc. It can get dizzyingly fast. I hope you all find moments of serenety, and savor them. "To a stress-free holiday season!" [crash] Thanks for your time. P.S. Could someone email me the sequence of Callahan's books? I have finished reading 'Time Pressure' by Spider, and thought that it was EXCELLENT. I have started on 'Stardance'. P.P.S. On soulmates, I agree to what everyone has said.. I find myself in the same situation. There is a girl the same age as I am (20), and when I am around this person, I find myself immensely enjoying myself, but, I know that nothing can come of it, because she already has a S.O. Oh well. Hopefully soemone right will come along eventually. P.P.P.S. If anyone needs a shoulder to lean/cry on, am I always available. Email address below, or if you want to use the US postal service, my address is: Dave Kraft/1952 North 84th St./Wauwatosa, WI 53226. Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mailrus!iuvax!pur-ee!sage.cc.purdue.edu!ibs From: ibs@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Lawrence daffner) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Solitude speaks again Message-ID: <3378@sage.cc.purdue.edu> Date: 12 Dec 89 03:00:23 GMT Reply-To: ibs@sage.cc.purdue.edu (Lawrence daffner) Organization: Purdue University Lines: 22 Solitude picks this moment to speak again.He stands up, raises his glass, and with a twinkle in his eye declares: I would like to take this opportunity to welcome Ellen. Congrats, Ellen. You are one of the lucky people in life. Some people never find a soulmate, and many of those never find callahan's. It's a pity,too. There are so many people out there that only dream of your luck. I hope your luck stays with you, as I am sure it will. Once you find the Luck, it stays with you until you lose hope. I also wish your luck to all those that need it. There are too many of those people in the world. Another toast? Sure! To those who know what they want but can't find it, and those that have found what they want, but don't know it. May they realize how special their situations are, and share with those in need. And to the dreamers, may they have hope enough for all of us. <*CRASH*> By the way, can someone direct me to the books. I got here without realizing where I was, and thank Provedence for her twist of fate. Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!mtxinu!unisoft!greywolf From: greywolf@unisoft.UUCP (The Grey Wolf) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: The Unbeliever's Tale Summary: The Land isn't real? Keywords: Make it so... Message-ID: <2700@unisoft.UUCP> Date: 12 Dec 89 01:26:55 GMT References: <5161.257f9900@elroy.uh.edu> Reply-To: greywolf@unisoft.UUCP (The Grey Wolf) Organization: somewhere between Concordant Opposition and Gladsheim. Lines: 162 *** WOOF! *** growlgrowlrrrrrr. The grey wolf stands, marches over to the line (as best a wolf can march) and toys with whatever articles of clothing are within reach of his jaws... { Uh, Mike, lemme have a Mackieson's, would ya, please? } In article <5161.257f9900@elroy.uh.edu> cosc5sh@elroy.uh.edu (Unbeliever) writes: > >Alas, The Land isn't real. { Make it so. } { Allow me to elucidate on this matter. Of course, the outside world will not appear to change -- that takes an effort I am not convinced this world is capable of anymore. What I mean, is Make It So within yourself. Granted, this may take a while, but it is more possible to alter your own perception than it is to alter the perceptions of those around you, especially those who *don't* care. } > Lepers DON'T heal; people DON'T forgive any harm >done. Truth and beauty are hidden by the cold, grey reality that cheaters >usually prosper, and that good guys finish last. { Good guys only *appear* to finish last. I used to think this way for a long time; I am convinced that, in my own way, in a much more important way, I will finish first -- but then I believe in things that not everyone will believe in, such as the fact that if you think things get intense here, on the physical reality, wait until you get even farther out on to other pla[cn]es. The goods get better and the nasties get nastier.} > I am a Thomas Covenant of the >real world. My disease is that I'm a social leper. Other regulars have spoken >of their need to find their soulmates; I'm an undergrad senior who hasn't even >had his first girlfriend yet. Living in the dorms, I see the other, "healthy" >people, constantly. But I can never join them; they would never let me. Oh, >they will acknowledge my existance after a fashion. But I never come in from >the "outside". Males have nothing to speak to me about (since I care nothing >for sports), and females are always "attached" somehow, or only see me as "just >a friend". Except they're uncomfortable with me around, so they make sure to >only be around me when there's lots of others wandering about, and a private >chat is impossible. { Well, holy smokes, does *this* look familiar! } *whuf* { My friend, you are going through something I contended with since I hit high school. I remember this exact feeling. But here and there I would find my true friends. Even now, my true friends come and find me. I meet those whom I am meant to meet, however brief our meeting may be. If I scare them off, they are not meant to know me, perhaps until later, perhaps not ever. } > >Yes, I am very bitter. As I type this, my two roommates are asleep in their >beds -- with a girl by each one's side. One of my two roommates has a "real" >girlfriend (read: fiancee), and the other is gay. Needless to say, this does >wonders for my ego. { I do not envy you, but I share your bitterness as I read this. Nobody should have to go through that so much... } > >I am not an overpowering figure. I'm a 5'10" computer science major who has >strenuously avoided anything that remotely resembles exercise. While I'm not >fat, neither am I the svelte god that girls seem to flock around. They claim >appearance is unimportant next to personality -- and then chase after the >first football player they see. { That's funny, sounds just like me... You see, I don't consider myself incredibly attractive -- but then this one lady decided that I was, in her terms, "very fine". Well, I'm not about to argue with her... If she loves me through and through as much as she seems to, it can't be all wrong... } > >I long for The Land. I long for a place where I can let my guard down and find >Peace. A place where the women look at you with interest; as though you were >MORE than they had hoped for, not less. Ah, to have a sense of self-worth >again. { Ever try to find other "loners"? Might be hard, but it would be well worth your while.} > >I have tried to avoid the masks that Phoenix has spoken of. Perhaps my problem >is that the girls all still have their masks on, and avoid me because I don't >and they can't deal with that. Or maybe I'm wearing a mask I can't see, and >frightening off the maskless women around me. I can't tell. I have talked to >some of my female "friends" about this problem to the point where they're >tired of listening, but none of them have much of a solution to offer. "Go to >more dances, and social events", they say. Yippee. { Nonononononothey'vegotitallwrong, you see... That is *their* opinion of "how to improve yourself in social circles". Either you're not going to fit, or you'll destroy yourself to fit if you don't fit already. What we need to establish, here, is a true friendship. It will only take one; the rest will follow. } > >Am I setting my "standards" too high? Am I looking for a soulmate while >thinking I'm just looking for a girlfriend? I don't THINK so. "Setting >standards too high" implies to me that I'm overlooking some women >intentionally; and if I'm doing that, I certainly haven't noticed. { This is entirely possible. I've overlooked so many it's not funny -- the one I am with I overlooked/missed, and I could just kick myself, for should I have found her earlier than I did, I would be going through a lot less grief. Someone will likely decide you're worthwhile, if you give them the chance. Don't look too hard, but don't be blind, either. } > >I came up with a theory the other day -- all one needs to do to find a >girlfriend is to arrange your life so that you're happy without one. >Murphy's Law then handles the rest. Needlessly bitter, but that expresses my >mood rather well right now. > { Heh. Not so needless, and not so bitter as you might think. I would get to the point where I would say "fuckiti'llstaysingle", and then someone would just walk up to me and say hello. Getting things started, by the way, really helps if you decide that you're only interested in the person as a friend. When I decided that I wanted someone as a girl- friend, well, that somehow seemed to scare them off. But every time I decided that I just wanted to be friends with them (I offered to take my first girlfriend out to pizza -- she went off the deep end head over heels, and the next thing I know, we're going steady! Go figure...), it worked out rather well. And you can't just *say* that you just want to be friends; Murphy *is* the thought.police! You really have to have resigned yourself that whatever happens, happens, and if it works, great. Fine. Dandy. I have a theory: When you're watching the door, it will not open. When you give up, the door will unlock. When you blink or turn your head, someone will walk in. Works for me... } >Oh well... Thanks for listening. I think I'll maintain both personas in >Calahan's for the time being. Thomas Covenant will continue trying to get in >touch with his (my) feelings, and the Doctor shall continue attempting to bring >others good cheer. And no, I >>WON'T<< attempt to have the Doctor cheer up the >Unbeliever. I'm not quite THAT schizophrenic yet! ;) Enough for now... { Best to you, Unbeliever. I wish you well, and that you will find that there are some areas of the world which are not hard, gray and angular, but soft, grey, and peaceful (I'll elaborate on my differentiation between "grey" and "gray" sometime...). But for now, food for thought. Eat well. } The wolf trots over to the bar, stands up so Mike can reach his collar- pocket, and begins to lap the stout down. { What do you *mean* I only have a five?!?... can anyone change a fiver? hello...? ...help? ... or shall I have to finish four Mackiesons and make four more toasts...} { No toast this time... } -- "Like leaves we touched, we danced; we once knew the story As Autumn called and we both remembered all those many years ago. I'm sure we know..." Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!lll-winken!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!mtxinu!unisoft!greywolf From: greywolf@unisoft.UUCP (The Grey Wolf) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Interconnectedness Message-ID: <2701@unisoft.UUCP> Date: 12 Dec 89 02:27:07 GMT References: <11960@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <12007@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <12058@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <11364@csli.Stanford.EDU> <12089@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> Reply-To: greywolf@unisoft.UUCP (The Grey Wolf) Distribution: usa Organization: None. I live in Chaos. Lines: 87 In article <12089@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> jmdoyle@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jennifer Mary Doyle) writes: >In <11364@csli.Stanford.EDU> cphoenix@csli.stanford.edu (Chris Phoenix) writes: > >Now I feel I have to add something else. The reason I *have* a mask, and the >reason I hide is because I've been there too. Imagine being in third grade, >when kids are cruelest, and being too tall, too smart, shy, and always >rubbing at your runny nose because you were too shy to ask for a tissue. I >*hated* third grade. It wasn't until I switched schools that things got >better, but even then I had a hard time. I'm tall, I don't like to party on the >weekends and get drunk, I'm just not a social butterfly. I read a lot, SF and >fantasy mostly, I'm an RPGamer, I'm *not* your stereotypical socialite >highschool girl. Add to that the fact that I *don't* want to take chances with >anything as scary as people, and you get someone who's not got a lot of >friends. Then I got to college. There's various stories in that, which I won't >go into. Now, finally, I have a group of friends I feel very close to. But the >mask is still there. I feel it has to be sometimes, that if I showed some of >the intensity I feel, I'd scare people off. And perhaps the person who sees >the mask most is the one I consider my closest friend. There are feelings I >*won't* show him, for fear of losing him. And yes, I do want to keep him. I'm >just trying to say that I'm not "them" where you all are "we", all of us are >in this together. Maybe a lot of people with those masks that you [general >you] are bitter towards have been hurt themselves, and they don't know the >mask is up, they don't realize they've changed. I know someone who's mask has >been in place for so long, she has no idea it exists. The masked people are >not bad guys, they may be the ones who will understand best if you can get >through. *whuf*. { IMHO, Jen, if he's *truly* your friend, you don't have to wear the mask, because he won't run away. If he does, he won't stay there. If he stays there, he's probably not interested in knowing the real you. It's not you he'd be running away from, anyway -- it'd be himself, because he might think that by running from you (again, only if he so chose), he'd succeed in completely forgetting feelings that he himself could not deal with.} { I've learned (the *hard* way) that those feelings will *never* go away; they will only remain buried. } { As far as "us" and "them", that's an attitude spurred on by instinctive defense. It's regrettably admittedly sad that life is so, but life goes on. As long as there is a "norm", people here and there will deviate from it. The deviants will remain on the fringes of society and likely harbour bitter attitudes towards those who are the "norm", just because a good majority of the "norm" will insist that anything which is not the "norm" is bad and evil and will cause the downfall of the "norm" and must be repressed, which causes bitterness in the deviants towards the "norm" due to this unwarranted hostility. And now, in addition to having to live on the fringes of society, they have to defend themself against the "norm"...and so the spiral goes. It's mortal, sentient nature. There's just not a whole lot that can readily be done about it, unfortunately. } { However, the more of us who decide either not to wear masks, or to at least attempt to remove them, the better off we'll be. Who knows, maybe we *will* find some time to remove our masks for good. It'd be nice... Thinking more on the "too clingy" argument (from a priest, no less!), I'm beginning that people have been, for the most part, hopelessly brainwashed into thinking that intimacy on any level invites harm. Hey, I've been hurt before. Think I'm going to give up? Not on your life. There are too many other beautiful things to heal one, to occupy one's time. You'll never forget you've been hurt, and there will be a scar. But, High Ones/God/Mr. Infinite/Whomever willing, there will be enough joy in your lives from *good* experiences to make the scars more experience than pain, if this is possible (which I think it is). } The wolf goes back and lies down. > >Jen >-- > "Make mine a root beer, Mike. Thanks. To communication! " >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Jennifer Doyle // Princeton '92 // jmdoyle@phoenix.princeton.edu >Disclaimer: I am a student, I represent the future. -- greywolf (The Grey Wolf). -- "Like leaves we touched, we danced; we once knew the story As Autumn called and we both remembered all those many years ago. I'm sure we know..." Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!mailrus!iuvax!pur-ee!pur-phy!maxwell.physics.purdue.edu!sterling From: sterling@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu (Bruce S. Woodcock) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Love Summary: Just stopping by... Keywords: Life, The Universe, and Everything (42) Message-ID: <2883@pur-phy> Date: 12 Dec 89 05:03:42 GMT Sender: news@pur-phy Reply-To: sterling@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu.UUCP (Bruce S. Woodcock) Distribution: na Organization: Purdue Univ. Physics Dept., W. Lafayette, IN Lines: 61 The quiet conversation is suddenly overwhelmed by a roar of wind as the doors open wide. The cold winter air whips through the room, chilling those inside. A tall, skinny figure in a large overcoat stands in the doorway. He strides inside, pausing only momentarily to shut the doors behind him. He walks up to the bar and pulls back his hood, revealing a dark-haired, plain looking gentleman with glasses and pimples. "One fuzzy navel, if you please," he asks of the bartender. The bartender stares at the newcomers face intently. "How old are you, son?" he asks. *****WARNING: CHANGING VERB TENSE***** "As old as time itself," I reply. The bartender decides to accept my word and hands me the drink. The crowd watches expectantly as I sip my elixer. I propse a short toast: "To all those who have ever loved, I drink to thee. Romance and chivalry are not dead. May the wings of liberty never lose a feather." And with that, I finish my drink. The crowd still waits. "I have come in search of knowledge and understanding," I begin. "Barring that, advice and a good time. I have come for I am in love, and am now caught helplessly in its grip. It is a strong yet tender grip, securly holding one yet on occassion squeezing the life out of you. "This is not the first time I`ve been in love. The first time, I spent three years watching her go through relationship after relationship, always getting hurt. I told her she should go after someone who truly cares, but she wasn`t interested in my love, only my friendship. To this day we are still friends, but I will always love her. "No I have fallen in love again. Once again, my love is not returned. Why? I don`t know; I suspect it is because she is involved in another. I know she will be hurt by the relationship, however, and I will have to see her cry. I only want for her what makes her happy, but I don`t wish to replay my previous relationship. I want to comfort her, but not just as the friend I already am to her, but as someone who loves her as well. Why doesn`t she see that? I should think one would appreciate someone being in love with them. Why doesn`t she appreciate what I feel? And if she does, then why not give my love a chance? "Let me tell you, I am not one readily taken to emotion. Most of the time I am very rational and constrained. Yet love seems to wipe all that out. All I want is to spend time with her, and for her to give my love a chance. Is that a crime? Have romantics been outlawed? She openly admits to being a romantic herself; why can`t she empathize with me? Is my life going to be ruined again by unrequited love? Some may be tempted to say such a thing isn`t possible; my reply is that you think so only because it has never happened to you. To those of us to whom it has, we know better. Please do not pass judgement on a feeling you have never felt. (Unrequited love, that is. It is possible to have been in a two-way love and have no inkling as to what unrequited love is like. Believe me, it exists.) "Well, the person she says she loves is leaving after this semester and I will have a year and a half to have our friendship grow into something more. She`s not interested now, but she may be once he is gone and she realizes that I truly care. But how long should I wait? Once again, I am without answers. "Well, I must be going now. I shall return around the first week of January to relate how things went over Christmas break without seeing her. If you have any advice or comments, please feel free to leave a message for me at this address." I leave my payment on the bar along with a note: sterling@maxwell.physics.purdue.edu "Merry Christmas, all," I say as I walk out the door, "and I`ll see you next decade." I slowly close the door behind me and trek back into the winter storm outside. Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!lll-winken!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!sxw103 From: SXW103@PSUVM.BITNET (Stephanie Wukovitz) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Dating confusion and such Message-ID: <89346.011913SXW103@PSUVM.BITNET> Date: 12 Dec 89 06:19:13 GMT Organization: Penn State University Lines: 81 The door is opened by a young woman dressed almost entirely in black. She is 5'4", about 120 lbs(average build), and looks Slavic, with dark brown hair and eyes, and strong features. She is not, perhaps, beautiful, but she is attractive in both appearance and in the quiet but confident way in which she moves. She walks up the bar and says "Mike, I'd like a rum and Diet Coke. (Well, ok, *I* like it)." She places her dollar on the counter, sits down, and looks thoughtful as she sips at her drink. After a few few moments she begins to speak. "People and relationships are strange, you know. I have been here several times before, always sitting quietly in the corner, listening, but never quite sure if I had anything to say. "I speak now, I suppose, because I feel ready to scream lately. I have always been rather reluctant to complain because, after listening to many of you, it seems as if I have very little to complain about. I have several very good friends and many other people to spend time with, am doing well academically, am fairly sure of what I want to do with my life, am asked out fairly often, etc., etc. "Things have not always been like this, of course. In high school I was like many people I who often come here-- very uncomfortable with other people. College, and living in the same dorm as many other students in the PSU honors program, helped me to learn to deal with social kinds of things, as did breaking up with my XSO last March. Part of the solution, I think, is that I refuse to wear a mask, and m that other people seem to find my masklessness interesting and comfortable. I believe that copious amounts of self-confidence are sufficient to allow one to have good friends without feeling like a hypocrite. "I do seem to have one problem, one that makes me very angry. I am having one hell of a time trying to find an SO. Through experiment, I've found I definitely don't want someone who is just a lover, and most of the men I've met in the past 9 months are really unsuitable intellectually or in their personality. I've gone out on dates with people that look like potential SOs, and what usually happens is that I am nice (?!) to the male in question, i.e. I make an effort to be warm and friendly (my friends have seen me--I'm *not* flirting, they claim), and then the male assumes that I am really interested in him. (BTW, dates are always Dutch) Usually I discover that I am attracted to him as a friend only. "What ends up happening is that he starts to visit a lot, which, by itself, is great. After all, I like having male friends, and even if someone might not make a suitable SO, he might still be a good person to know. If he suggests paying for an activity o or wants to go out on "a date", I won't go. Eventually, he either realizes that I am not interested in him and then thinks that I "led him on", or else he is too oblivious to notice, gets carried away, and then I have to explain the situation to him nicely. (if there is such a thing). In either case, he refuses to have anything to do with me afterwards. "So, must I be nasty to men who are "interested" when I don't want to have a sexual relationship with them? I *do* have male friends, but these relationships have *always* been 'like a brother' from the very beginning. Why can't these others accept me as a person and not just as a potential SO? It's gotten so that I'm afraid to go on a date, even if it just *might* turn out to be fun. "It's getting worse. It's been 9 months since the breakup. I would really like to find an SO, but there are very few men out there who have a passion for mathematics and other qualities I wish I could find more; such men that I have found either have SOs or are teaching my classes-- or both. "Sometimes I wonder whether it would be better to be a social outcast again than to have things be so confusing. Before, at least, I didn't want an SO this badly, and nobody's feelings got hurt except mine. I'm happy for those of my friends who have SOs, but seeing them together makes me angry sometimes. People assume that I could 'have a boyfriend if she really wanted to.' It isn't that simple, folks. "Just ramblings, I suppose, but they have made me feel at least marginally better. Thanks for listening. She stands, and throws her glass into the fire. "To finding what you really want." She grins suddenly. "...and to eligible male mathematicians!" :-) ------- Stephanie W. Wukovitz "Beauty is the first test; there is (the horn goddess no permanent place in the world for once again!) ugly mathematics." -G.H. Hardy, in SXW103@PSUVM.BITNET _A Mathematician's Apology_