Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!lll-winken!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!samsung!cs.utexas.edu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!torsqnt!tmsoft!mason From: mason@tmsoft.uucp (Dave Mason) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Montreal Message-ID: Date: 13 Dec 89 21:14:34 GMT References: <19178@watdragon.waterloo.edu> <44408@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Reply-To: mason@tmsoft.UUCP (Dave Mason) Followup-To: alt.callahans Organization: TM Software Associates, Toronto Lines: 12 Dave hurries to the bar to claim one of the remaining shot glasses. Eyes shining he shuffles over to the line. "May we all treat others as treasured individuals, and may the pain of this massacre provide an opportunity for humanity to move forward." As a couple of tears meander down his cheeks, he slowly downs the amber liquid, and then with sudden vehemence fires the glass into the fireplace with such force that it shatters into 14 pieces. For a moment they seem to be suspended in the enclosed space. As he stares at them they shimmer into images of 14 bright, happy young women. They quickly fade into the firelight as Dave fades back into the shadows. Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!lll-winken!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu From: goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Thank-yous and goodbyes Message-ID: <33198@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> Date: 14 Dec 89 02:00:55 GMT References: <1989Dec13.040548.9494@sun.soe.clarkson.edu> Sender: usenet@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Reply-To: goldfarb@ocf.Berkeley.EDU (David Goldfarb) Organization: ucb Lines: 34 stadnism@clutx.clarkson.edu writes: ) )FURRY FANDOM OBSERVED )12. Furries have many different ways to relate to their furry )personas. Some think of them as totally different beings who happen to )live inside them. Others see them as simply minor varients of )themselves. And still others see them as vehicles for normally )suppressed aspects of their own personalities. )13. The most interesting way of viewing a persona though, is to see it )as some sort of mystical entity that can confer benefits which are )represented by the animal shape. Some relate this to a witch's )familiar or to the spirit guardian of the plains indians. This can be )taken literally, that is with actual belief in such entities, or in a )Jungian fashion, that the animal shape is a symbolic key to unlock )unconscious abilities. )15. In fact it has been claimed that, despite the impression one might )get about the persona as "putting on a mask", the use of the persona )actually enables a person to be more genuinely themselves. That's )because the persona has more freedom, not being subject to the )stifling layers that social convention puts on us mere humans. One of the nearby people observes, "Fascinating! Have you read Lisa Goldstein's novel _A Mask for the General_? Is she one of you? This parallels a *lot* of stuff in that book. I didn't know people ac- tually did it!" ) ) Steven Stadnicki David Goldfarb goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (Insert standard disclaimer) "Do you think 5 pages is long enough for a final paper, or should I increase the size of the letters?" --Benn Herrera Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!lll-winken!decwrl!ucbvax!fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM!jane From: jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM (Jane Beckman x2637) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Jilara, Montreal, and people with guns Message-ID: <8912131742.AA04980@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM> Date: 14 Dec 89 01:42:33 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 36 Jilara looks older than most folks have seen her, and there is a slight shake to her hand as she raises her glass, in response to Jim's toast on the women of Montreal. "God, I hope this post gets through," she says. "Because this needs to get said. I've told you guys that I've seen a lot. Well, Montreal reminded me of maybe why I'm here, alive, and keeping on. Years and years ago, you see, there was this guy who'd gotten a little flakey in the military. Everyone said he was too weird, but I was the one who befriended him, because everyone needs someone to talk to... And he may have been weird, but I felt for him." She takes a deep breath. "I was the one he called the night he was going to go up on the roof with his M1 and start shooting. Of course, I didn't know that, until I got there. I dropped everything and headed out, because something in his call told me something was ****VERY WRONG****. It was just that everything had gotten to be too much, and he viewed that as a solution, planned to kill himself and a few other people... I took the gun away from him, I talked him out of it." She downs her drink in a gulp, spilling a great deal as she does. "That's what growing up in a crisis situation does to you, sometimes, make you able to deal with a lot of things other people can't. If there are people alive today because I went through Hell as a kid, I will bless the Road of Hell. Hell, I KNOW there are people alive because of me. The Japanese have a term---satsujinken, "the sword that gives life." That's my road. And every time I hear about stuff like Montreal, it reminds me of why I am here, even if I may not enjoy it at times. I am here that others may live. To bushido, and satsujinken." She hurls her glass into the fire with more force than before. ------ "Empty street with points of light, None spell safety in my sight; Lend me a knife, lend me a life That I may make it home tonight..." ---Leslie Fish, "Walk on the Nightside" Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!agate!earthquake.Berkeley.EDU!gwh From: gwh@earthquake.Berkeley.EDU (George William Herbert) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: A New Face At The Bar... Message-ID: <1989Dec14.040314.5778@agate.berkeley.edu> Date: 14 Dec 89 04:03:14 GMT Sender: usenet@agate.berkeley.edu (USENET Administrator;;;;ZU44) Reply-To: gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU (George William Herbert) Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 44 Summary:Allow me to introduce myself... Organization:Umm...me? not likely :-] The Very, Very tall stranger stalked into the bar, nearly banging his head on some ceiling beams. Conversation stopped for a second as everyone sensed his tenseness and anger. He stood still for a second, then peeled off his dark coat, revealign a thinner body beneath than anyone had guessed. They all waited quietly. "Damn," he said. "I HATE it when it's cold out!," and smiled, dropping the coat on a empty chair. "Mike?" Mike smiled, "Ahh, it's the Maniac. You should ahve given more warming that you were coming." Manaic stopped and groaned. "You win, for now. Something warm?" Mike complied as the new man sat down near the edge of the the bar, but still some attention focused on him. " I Suppose i ought to explain to you all who i am. Well, My real name is George, in case you don't read news headers. [smile] Anyway, i got the name from a character i wrote up once for a book, who i sorta based on myself. I'm really a fairly mellow guy, usually. I try to be fairly empathic for reasons of my own... I like good music, almost any type, though modern rock tickles my fancy now. I can pun, though I'm not as hot at it as Mike is. [Groan from the bar]. I Drive, i sail, i design things that float and fly and drive and do whatever the word is for deep space. I publish things for sci-fi conventions, I spend too much time in front of computers, and practice what was once Kendo in my spare time. I happen to be a part-time vampire (ask my friends about all the cans of coke with the holes in the bottom... Oh, and i play tag with ninjas [but they're just my friends.... ;-] I'm going to Berkeley getting a piece of paper saying i can actually do one of the above [if you really are interested, finger me :-] I tend to find time when people need some listening to, so if you find me online on IRC or forumnet or any other form of communication, say hi and if you need it i'll give you a listen. Now, a toast, to those who have the courage to ask for empathy :) [Ke-Rash] Not a bad shot if i do say so myself.... **************************************************************************** George William Herbert | UCB [department edited for effect] [On schedule? at UCB? Yes!] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- gwh@ocf.berkeley.edu ||||||||| "And What if I Don't?" "Then, You Die, gwh@soda.berkeley.edu ||||||||||||||| the Girl dies, Everybody Dies..." maniac@garnet.berkeley.edu |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| -Heavy Metal Path: mit-eddie!mit-amt!snorkelwacker!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!uunet!microsoft!t-phils From: t-phils@microsoft.UUCP (the Eternal Stranger) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: The victims in Montreal Summary: Maybe chivalry _IS_ dead... or heroism, anyway. Message-ID: <9525@microsoft.UUCP> Date: 14 Dec 89 03:47:21 GMT Reply-To: t-phils@microsoft.UUCP (the Eternal Stranger) Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA Lines: 84 Alaric, after a brief conversation with one of the many lurkers in the corners of the room, walks up to the bar with a somber expression and produces another metamorphosing coin. "Brandy if you please, Mike," he says. "It seems appropriate for the moment." Taking the proffered glass, he steps to the chalk line and pauses for a moment to gather his thoughts. He is obviously still very angry, but is trying hard to control his anger. He waits a moment for conversation to die down a little, then begins to speak. "Thanks to Paul," he says, gesturing towards the lurker in question, "I now know a little more about what happened in Montreal... and it saddens me greatly. My faith in most of the human race nas never been particularly strong, and this is yet another chip in that faith." He pauses for a moment, making a visible effort to stay calm. "Fourteen women were killed in that room. The class being an engineering one, so I am told, it is reasonable to assume that the room also contained at least that many men, given the general balance of men and women in engineering classes. There was only one gunman - and armed with a rifle, a poor weapon for close-quarters use. And from what I have been told, even with the odds so greatly in their favor, NOT ONE OF THOSE MEN TRIED TO STOP HIM!!!" The glass shatters in his hand, unnoticed. "Is there no courage left in this world? Where are all the heroes? - Gods of Chaos, it didn't even NEED a hero. All it needed was for two or three of those men - maybe even just one - to realise that in the confines of a room, one man with a rifle facing ten or more unarmed men would be able to get off AT MOST two or three shots before being overpowered. All it needed was for ONE MAN to care enough about those women to TRY IT, DAMN IT TO HELL!!! The rest would have got the idea!!" He is by now openly weeping in rage and frustration. "By all the gods, if I'd been in that room, I'd have tried it!" [At least - I hope to hell I would have. - Phil] "Even assuming that he had time, being rushed suddenly, to aim a killing shot, the next man would surely have gotten him down... and one life to save fourteen is a very cheap price, at least in my mind! If the life spent was my own, I'd still consider it a bargain - I'd willingly take the chance! YOU DON'T TURN YOUR BACK AND WALK AWAY!!! Not if you still want to keep on calling yourself a man afterwards!!!" He pauses for a moment, realizing at last that he has a handful of broken glass, then hurls the fragments violently into the fireplace. Residual alcohol burns blue for a moment. "Maybe some of you think I'm overreacting. I don't. Let me explain something to you... Even though I have been scorned and shut out by people for most of my life, I still love people in general - and women, ANY women, are especially precious to me. The instinct to protect them is strong in my heart. I will never willingly stand by and leave a woman in danger, even if I place myself in danger also by trying to protect her. In this day and age, you may think that's an outdated attitude. I can think of many women who would find it insulting, because in their minds the desire to protect them is somehow demeaning - an attitude that I find utterly incomprehensible. What can possibly be demeaning about being valued? I've been told that I set women on pedestals. I don't agree. If you want my opinion on the subject, most people don't see the true worth of women, of _anyone_ - they don't really see how precious a life is. I do. To me, a woman - any woman - is more precious than any words can convey. You may not agree or understand, but that's how I feel." He pauses again, looking around the room. "I was told that the gunman separated the men from the women, and forced the men to leave. I don't agree with that version of events. There weren't any men in that room - because anyone who would turn his back on fourteen women and leave them to die, at the hands of ONE MAN - make that one animal - with a rifle, isn't a man. I don't know what he is, but he isn't a man." He glares around the room, his eyes filled with a cold and unforgiving rage, then stares into the fireplace at the shards of glass. "I seem to be little late with my toast... To courage - by all the gods, I hope there's some left in this world. Sometimes, I wonder." He steps over to the table he has been sitting at, and takes his greatsword from where it leans against the wall. "Now if you'll excuse me, I think I need to step outside for a while..." He walks over to the door, slinging his greatsword across his back, and steps out into the night, leaving the door to swing behind him in the wind. the night, slinging his greatsword -- Phil Stracchino t-phils@microsoft.UUCP Eternal Stranger and Digital Renaissance Man for Hire ------------------------------------------------------------- `The biggest drawback to being a Renaissance man in the 20th century is that you automatically become an anachronism. The 20th century has no real place or use for a Renaissance man, particularly a digital one.' Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!lll-winken!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!apple!agate!earthquake.Berkeley.EDU!gwh From: gwh@earthquake.Berkeley.EDU (George William Herbert) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: The victims in Montreal Message-ID: <1989Dec14.113146.21826@agate.berkeley.edu> Date: 14 Dec 89 11:31:46 GMT Sender: usenet@agate.berkeley.edu (USENET Administrator;;;;ZU44) Reply-To: gwh@ocf.Berkeley.EDU (George William Herbert) Organization: ucb Lines: 17 Summary:Heroism, and Men and People... Keywords:Sadness? Callahan's has never been a vindictive place...I think our friend was too upset to remember this, and that i understand. But we have to remember two things also...One is that not everyone is made out to be a hero in this day and age, and while i would hope to see more of it I won't judge others for their failings, it's not my place... And the second is that the people done the longest term hurt are going to be those who were either unable or unwilling to act...those that will live with the knoledge that either they couldn't or didn't do anything when something horrible happened. Remember all the victims. Let me toast to Lady Luck, and a bit to Bushido if that will mean anything to anyone. That there will be a hero next time. [+Krash+] -Maniac [] Path: mit-eddie!mit-amt!snorkelwacker!apple!usc!samsung!uunet!philmtl!philabs!ttidca!hollombe From: hollombe@ttidca.TTI.COM (The Polymath) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Message-ID: <8457@ttidca.TTI.COM> Date: 14 Dec 89 00:38:43 GMT References: <129010@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> <11360@csli.Stanford.EDU> <1989Dec9.054205.15710@agate.berkeley.edu> Reply-To: hollombe@ttidcb.tti.com (The Polymath) Organization: The Cat Factory Lines: 61 In article gary@sun.mcs.clarkson.edu (Gary Levin) writes: }The usual response to an obnoxious drunk at Callahan's is to help them }home and hope to find out why they are obnoxious next time, when their }minds are a little clearer. ... }... The alternative (for the Net }incarnation) would seem to be to ignore them, easily done with the }omniously named KILL files. I'd rather not send someone to Coventry ... The Polymath joins the conversation: "Friends, I've given some thought to this situation. IMHO, kill files are contrary to the spirit of Callahan's. If you put someone in a kill file it means you've given up on them. You never want to hear from them again. You're denying their potential to learn, mature and improve. I don't think Mike would approve. "That raises the question, how else can we toss someone out an electronic door? How can we give Fast Eddie's electronic blackjack some tangible weight? I can think of only one answer, and it calls for a lot of discipline on all our parts: "First, the offending party should be given a simple clear message as to acceptable standards of behavior. Something like: 'Child, this establishment is a bar. It is not a daycare center. Take your toys and go play with the other children in alt.flame. Come back when you've read news.announce.newusers and grown up enough to be fit for polite company.' "Once the 'go away' message has been delivered, and it should only be delivered once, all further postings from the miscreant are to be totally ignored unless and until they become fit for polite company. That means no counter-flames, no e-mail, no followups of any kind. Unrewarded behavior extinguishes pretty rapidly. Given that treatment, they won't hang around for long. "It should go without saying that a person's behavior would have to be deemed seriously, gratuitously obnoxious before instituting such a course of action. I don't think the harmless message that triggered this discussion qualifies as such, for example. Also, many people come through Mike's door in pain. We mustn't let anger born of anguish exclude someone who really needs Callahan's. "Alas, the appearance of immature net.fools is as regular as the migration of birds. Sooner or later, one is bound to stumble in Mike's door. My fear is one nasty flame war could seriously damage what we've built here. The people would be the same, of course, but the atmosphere would change. The safety of Callahan's would be flawed, possibly irreparably. I think that would be a great tragedy. "And so, a toast: "To solidarity in the face of adversity. "What say you? -- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, hollombe@ttidca.tti.com) Illegitimis non Citicorp(+)TTI Carborundum 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 450-9111, x2483 Santa Monica, CA 90405 {csun | philabs | psivax}!ttidca!hollombe Path: mit-eddie!mit-amt!snorkelwacker!apple!usc!samsung!uunet!philmtl!philabs!ttidca!hollombe From: hollombe@ttidca.TTI.COM (The Polymath) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Montreal Message-ID: <8458@ttidca.TTI.COM> Date: 14 Dec 89 00:43:51 GMT References: <19178@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Reply-To: hollombe@ttidcb.tti.com (The Polymath) Organization: The Cat Factory Lines: 15 In article <19178@watdragon.waterloo.edu> jmsankey@rose.waterloo.edu (Sharkey) writes: } "To the 14 women massacred in Montreal. May God have mercy on their }souls." ... "And ours," says The Polymath, claiming a glass. "Sadly, I'm sure we've not seen the last of such incidents. "To the 14 and all the other innocent victims of the world's madness. May we find a cure soon." -- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, hollombe@ttidca.tti.com) Illegitimis non Citicorp(+)TTI Carborundum 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 450-9111, x2483 Santa Monica, CA 90405 {csun | philabs | psivax}!ttidca!hollombe Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!lll-winken!uunet!image.soe.clarkson.edu!news From: gary@sun.mcs.clarkson.edu (Gary Levin) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Montreal Message-ID: Date: 14 Dec 89 16:18:21 GMT Sender: news@sun.soe.clarkson.edu Distribution: alt Organization: Clarkson University, Potsdam NY Lines: 45 No joke this time. It isn't appropriate. Perhaps it comes from living close to the Canadian border, but I awoke the morning after the shootings to the news report on our local radio station. The next day, I happened to be going to Waterloo, and so I heard a lot more. I think that a lot of details didn't make it through the U.S. news, details that might make a difference in how some people view the actions of those who were there. If anyone has more accurate information, please post it. It wasn't a rifle, it was a semi-automatic. He didn't have to aim and shoot, he sprayed. The men were herded to one side; from the reports that I heard, I don't know at what point it became clear who was going to be shot. One of the women in the group who survived was interviewed very soon after the murders. At first, my reaction was that no one had any business bothering her so soon after such a tragedy, but it was clear from her statements that she *wanted* to make her comments. What she said was that the men in the room should not blame themselves; there was nothing that they could have done. Whether this is an accurate evaluation, I don't know, but I thought it was generous of her to make the effort to comfort the men who must also have been hurt. For those who still have the desire for vengence, it has not been mentioned that the murderer subsequently killed himself. Justice will have to handled somewhere else, somewhen else. The time to stop the killer wasn't when he had the gun in his hands. It was long before he left home that day. It was before he became so embittered with women and life. If there were more people who would listen and talk (preferably in that order) to people with troubles, there might be fewer crimes of this sort. There is a lot of effort now to explain why he murdered the women. I hope that people remember that they may find explanations, but never reasons or excuses, for the crime. Toast: To more Callahan's, out in the real world, where they are needed. Anyone's room can be the Place, if the right people are there. -- Gary Levin/Dept of Math & CS/Clarkson Univ/Potsdam, NY 13676/(315) 268-2384 BitNet: gary@clutx Internet: gary@clutx.clarkson.edu Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen From: davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (Wm E. Davidsen Jr) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Montreal Message-ID: <215@sixhub.UUCP> Date: 14 Dec 89 15:11:54 GMT References: <19178@watdragon.waterloo.edu> Reply-To: davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (bill davidsen) Organization: *IX Public Access UNIX, Schenectady NY Lines: 36 A man rises from one of the tables near the fire and walks to the bar. "A pint of your darkest ale," he says, and gestures toward the remaining shot glasses on the bar, "this one will need a chaser." He drops a buck on the bar and walks slowly toward the line. He looks to be in his late thirties, but is really a bit older than that. His hair and beard are still dark, but the hair is getting thin. He's a BIG man, just short of six and a half feet tall even without the low heeled boots his feet prefer, and heavy, although showing no signs of flab. He holds up the shot glass and says, "To all the victims, those who died, and those men and women who will go through life knowing they could have acted and didn't." He drains the shot and throws it into the fire with a snap of the wrist. "I have a daughter," he continued, "who started college this year. She didn't pick Montreal, so she was safe. She went to New Paltz instead, about five minutes drive from the school where all the kids got killed by the tornado. She didn't drive down that road at noon, and she was safe again." He drained the heavy black ale in a gulp, and puffed through his moustache to clear the foam. "To all our family, and our friends, and out loved ones of every nature: may they never be in the wrong place at the wrong time!" He tossed the beer mug into the fire. The thick glass handle came to rest by the side of the fire, developing hundreds of little cracks from the heat. It seemed to move with the reflection of the dancing flames. -- bill davidsen - sysop *IX BBS and Public Access UNIX davidsen@sixhub.uucp ...!uunet!crdgw1!sixhub!davidsen "Getting old is bad, but it beats the hell out of the alternative" -anon