Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!rim101 From: RIM101@PSUVM.BITNET (unicorn) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Dating confusion and such Message-ID: <89348.081433RIM101@PSUVM.BITNET> Date: 14 Dec 89 13:14:33 GMT References: <89346.011913SXW103@PSUVM.BITNET> Organization: Penn State University Lines: 40 A young woman, barely 5 ft tall and of rather large frame, turns to Steph as she walks back to the bar; as usual, she has followed Steph to a place where she is not quite sure she belongs, yet she smiles sympathetically, knowing far toowell what it is like to be considered a friend, yet never a lover by those men who are close to her. What, how many times has that happened in the past four years? Four, perhaps five times if you count a near-miss with a fellow who didn't have the ability to open up to her. She doubted for the moment that he had even opened up to Sara and Cathy and Reese that one late night, but she had seen the self depreciating ramble Cathy had archived so carefully. Poor Elie...But right now, she asked Mike for another shot of brandy in another attempt to forget how through about a year of constant variations on the theme of stupidity she had lost one of her good friends, this time for good. Not that David (oh you silly child, it is Dave - David is just your creation - a lover created for your own needs) didn't have good reason for this time to be the last straw; after a semester of puppy doging he and his girlfriends "family" around the dorm, she was defiant when she was able to separate from them. Besides, she had not accepted the fact that despite being his only friend for as long as she had been before he found his SO, she could not force him to care for me as she for him...as she di d for him even now, sometimes. It was no use now, really. Another few months and she would not see him again. He'd be just an address on a Christmas card list, as he used to claim he would someday be on those night walks they went on. "Don't be silly, Dave", she would say. "We'll always be friends..." "I still want to be your friend. Talk to me, damnit! Even if it's a long over due bitching out! It's like two yrs. ago, when Samantha left you...again I am talking to a brick wall..." she speaks to the glass Draining the brandy, she throws it against the fireplace, hard as she threw the against his door when she realized she'd lost him. Merry christmas, mike. ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Randi Mason (RIM101@PSUVM) ^"Gonna love myself more than anyone else DISCLAIMER:"Don't blame me. My ^ Gonna treat me right normal mindset is somewhere ^ Gonna make you say you love me first between ditz and the cheese is ^ And you'll be the one with the most to melting" lose tonight" - "This Time" T.C. ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!psuvax1!psuvm!tag2 From: TAG2@PSUVM.BITNET Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Masks,exc. Message-ID: <89348.100901TAG2@PSUVM.BITNET> Date: 14 Dec 89 15:09:01 GMT Organization: Penn State University Lines: 34 Deepvoice awakes from his doze, casts a cantrip to warm his lukewarm hot chocolate ("I'm not in Magyk's class as far as magic goes, but cold cocoa just doesn't hit the spot", he explains), and stands by the bar, thinking and reminiscing. Shaking himself out of his past, he speaks slowly but emphatically : "Masks. Yeah, I know about them. Shadow said a lot of wise things about them, which reminded me of some things in my own life. See, I have had my share of friends, bless 'em. They're great, and some days I wouldn't have got through without a friend's help. One of my great regrets, though, is that one or two of them got left behind when I moved along (as,alas, often happens when one moves often). When I see them, every so often, they still believe that I'm the person they knew one or two years ago. Needless to say, I'm not. So I put on the mask of my "old self", so as to not cause waves. Same thing when I get home for the holidays. The worst part of it all is that I don't know I'm wearing the mask while I'm wearing it (most of the time; on occasion my real self will send out warning signs, usually when my mask asks me to do something which the "Real Me" would never do. That's my conscience; I obey it above all, as sometimes it's my only link with the person I am.). Does anyone remember the tale of the Faceless Prisoner, about a prisoner in pre-Revolution France who was made to wear a steel faceplate so that no one would recognize his identity, and when his mask was taken off, his face had changed to become identical to his mask's vistage? That's probably the biggest drawback to masks, that they change the person under the mask, until the mask and the person are one. Then things get very confusing... I agree that masks are generally awful, but it seems like just another way that people try to avoid pain. However, they consume (I think Shadow used the word "suffocating"; same idea) and destroy the person underneath. Maybe the pain is worth it? Hmmmmm...." "Well, I've got to be running. Be back after the holidays. Peace." Deepvoice then walks out into the blizzard, as so many others have done, and is soon lost from view. Tom.......................tag2@PSUVM "Yes,yes,yes..........but it WORKS!" Path: mit-eddie!bbn!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hplred!egly From: egly@hplred.HP.COM (Diana Egly) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Group Relationships Message-ID: <20940014@hplred.HP.COM> Date: 14 Dec 89 01:02:28 GMT References: <140@boston-harbor.lucid.com> Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA Lines: 15 / hplred:alt.callahans / hildebrd@cs.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand) / 3:12 pm Dec 11, 1989 / > However I think for people more mature, a "circle of lovers" > could work out if the group was fairly balenced in terms of the sexes. > Our group was three men and one woman, all of us heterosexual. I think > the imbalence would have cause lots of problems if we had tried it. > > Anyone else out there have any thoughts on this? It's a little more complex than you think, but I've seen a lot of variations of a circle of lovers that work. Gender, orientation, libido all matter, but not as much as whether everyone is honest and trustworthy and trusting. I almsot feel that I would be intruding on the privacy of friends were I to say too much more... Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hplred!egly From: egly@hplred.HP.COM (Diana Egly) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Punday night Message-ID: <20940012@hplred.HP.COM> Date: 13 Dec 89 14:54:11 GMT References: <20940009@hplred.HP.COM> Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA Lines: 4 I'm glad that drinks at Callahan's are a unicorn price (Taldin buys?) even so, when my accountant see my monthly tab, he flies off the handle. So if there's any truth to the rumor that Mike's considering a cover charge, then I say, "A fee? Nix." Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!usc!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hplred!egly From: egly@hplred.HP.COM (Diana Egly) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Memories of romantic longings Message-ID: <20940013@hplred.HP.COM> Date: 13 Dec 89 18:47:48 GMT Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA Lines: 52 OK, friends, all this talk of finding love, romance, and a life-partner has finally managed to trigger a memory of long ago... a previous lifetime... Wait a bit while I get a lemon and water (with lots of extra lemon) from Mike. There... The last time I remember wanting a lover (or whatever you prefer to call it) was on June 17, 1984. A friend and I had gotten together that afternoon to spend a giggly afternoon talking about love and hope and possible partners and all such things. I'd almost forgotten that we did that. I left for the evening and when I came back it was to a very empty house with a card from the coroner's office asking me to call. You see, I didn't live alone back then. I lived with my sister. I doubt that I can describe my sister in any way that ould give you a glimpse of the reality. She's had encephalitis when she was a baby and was left with brain damage. A really good neurologist could distinguish between her condition and cerebral palsy -- but there aren't that many good neurologists. She had severely limited input-output channels -- she could read a bit but only with great difficulty because of severe dyslexia, she couln't do more than say an occasional isolated word understandably, and that was with great difficulty too, she had little control or co-ordination of fine muscle skills... I could go on if it would help you get the picture. She was my dependent. I planned my life around the expectation that we would grow old together. I planned my career around the knowledge that she needed easy-to-use access to an infinately patient and enriched communication media -- computers with graphic symbology and with language and speech. When she died, it all died, and I lost myself. Someday I'll tell you about bereavement, not because I need you sympathy, but because it's something we all need to know of. It's a part of life that our culture does not prepare us to experience or understand. But that's not what I want to talk about now. Instead, I want you to recapture with me a Sunday afternoon, back when I was 30, back when I wanted to find love. An afternoon when a friend and I wrote letters filled with our hopes for romance. Two women, lounging on the bed, writing their dreams onto paper. Reading them back to each other. And talking, talking, tlking about the details that had been left out. "Preserve your memories -- they're all that's left you." Diana egly@hplabs Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!lll-winken!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!njin!princeton!phoenix!jmdoyle From: jmdoyle@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jennifer Doyle) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Growing Up Message-ID: <12203@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> Date: 14 Dec 89 16:18:59 GMT References: <10290@pucc.Princeton.EDU> <7330@pt.cs.cmu.edu> Reply-To: jmdoyle@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jennifer Mary Doyle) Organization: or, conversely, Chaos: Lines: 15 YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you, Monica, for saying it much better than I could. And also for your life bearing an uncanny resemblence to my own. :-) "Mike, one for her, on me. And another for me. Um, something hot and chocolate and not fattening, please. To keeping on." Jen -- "Make mine a root beer, Mike. Thanks. To communication! " ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jennifer Doyle // Princeton '92 // jmdoyle@phoenix.princeton.edu Disclaimer: I am a student, I represent the future. Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!lll-winken!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!wuarchive!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!njin!princeton!phoenix!jmdoyle From: jmdoyle@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jennifer Doyle) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Message-ID: <12204@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> Date: 14 Dec 89 16:31:17 GMT References: <129010@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> <11360@csli.Stanford.EDU> <1989Dec9.054205.15710@agate.berkeley.edu> <8457@ttidca.TTI.COM> Reply-To: jmdoyle@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Jennifer Mary Doyle) Organization: or, conversely, Chaos: Lines: 21 In article <8457@ttidca.TTI.COM> hollombe@ttidcb.tti.com (The Polymath) writes: >"And so, a toast: > > "To solidarity in the face of adversity. > >"What say you? Yes, indeed. Remember that people come here for help, often. There may also be those who can't believe there can be a flame-free group on the net. Or even those who see a lack of flaming as a weakness. Or, perhaps, those like the troll in Gilly's story (metaphorically speaking), who want to start a flame war and step back to watch the chaos. Remember the reason for Callahan's and why so many come here, and practice solidarity, not only in response, but in your levels of compasssion, tolerance, and understanding. Jen -- "Make mine a root beer, Mike. Thanks. To communication! " ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jennifer Doyle // Princeton '92 // jmdoyle@phoenix.princeton.edu Disclaimer: I am a student, I represent the future. Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!apple.com!zardoz From: zardoz@apple.com (Phillip Wayne) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Group Relationships Message-ID: <5764@internal.Apple.COM> Date: 14 Dec 89 18:40:40 GMT Sender: usenet@Apple.COM Organization: Apple Computer, Inc. Lines: 35 References:<140@boston-harbor.lucid.com> <20940014@hplred.HP.COM> In article <20940014@hplred.HP.COM> egly@hplred.HP.COM (Diana Egly) writes: > / hplred:alt.callahans / hildebrd@cs.swarthmore.edu (Jeff Hildebrand) / 3:12 pm Dec 11, 1989 / > > > However I think for people more mature, a "circle of lovers" > > could work out if the group was fairly balenced in terms of the sexes. > > Our group was three men and one woman, all of us heterosexual. I think > > the imbalence would have cause lots of problems if we had tried it. > > > > Anyone else out there have any thoughts on this? > > It's a little more complex than you think, but I've seen a lot of variations > of a circle of lovers that work. Gender, orientation, libido all matter, > but not as much as whether everyone is honest and trustworthy and trusting. > > I almsot feel that I would be intruding on the privacy of friends were I to > say too much more... "Here's a dollar, Mike. Something appropriately alcoholic," the one eyed man says. He takes the glass and stands to the line. "Here's to a loving circle of friends," he says. "The best way to keep warm on a cold winter's night." <+kerraasssshhh+> ************************************* * When you do it to me, it's discrimination * When I do it to you, it's AA ************************************* -- These are my ideas. Oy vey, are they mine. -- zardoz Newsgroups: alt.callahans Path: mit-eddie!mcmullan From: mcmullan@eddie.mit.edu (Greg McMullan) Subject: Re: Archives by FTP (hopefully the last time) Message-ID: <1989Dec14.191319.22412@eddie.mit.edu> Summary: got it right now (cross your fingers) Reply-To: mcmullan@eddie.MIT.EDU (Greg McMullan) Organization: not much References: <1989Dec12.160259.21563@eddie.mit.edu> <1989Dec12.182621.28722@eddie.mit.edu> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 89 19:13:19 GMT Lines: 36 OK. I think I have it right this time. The archives of this group from the very beginning are available for anonymous FTP again. The details: host: eddie.mit.edu directory: alt.callahans files: two different naming conventions. The first 350 or so messages are in 27 files named arch01.Z, arch02.Z, arch03.Z,...arch27.Z. Each of these is about 15kb compressed with the Unix(*) utility compress (about 30kb uncompressed). These I got from ckd. The ones that I have saved from eddie start with message 180 (that arrived here --- some settling may have occured in transit. Your mileage may vary), and are in groups of 10 messages, again compressed to save space. These filenames are art180-189.Z, 190-199.Z, and so on. Whenever we get another ten messages and I have the time, I will move them into the directory. The first 350 are about 350 kb compressed, and the updates since then seem to run about 15 kb (each set of 10) compressed, so the total archive will be about 450 kb compressed, or double that uncompressed if you grab it right now. file type: binary, be sure to tell FTP that before you start, or you will get corrupted files. Well, this is long enough for now, so let me stop here and wish everyone who is in school luck on their exams, and everyone a good season. Cheers! Greg PS if anyone is interested in a program to uncompress these files on MS-DOS PC's, get in touch with me --- I have one that works well. (*) Unix is a registered footnote of AT&T Bell Labs Newsgroups: alt.callahans Path: mit-eddie!mcmullan From: mcmullan@eddie.mit.edu (Greg McMullan) Subject: Re: Message-ID: <1989Dec14.193345.23931@eddie.mit.edu> Summary: I second the Polymath's suggestion Reply-To: mcmullan@eddie.MIT.EDU (Greg McMullan) Organization: who, me? organized? References: <129010@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> <11360@csli.Stanford.EDU> <1989Dec9.054205.15710@agate.berkeley.edu> <8457@ttidca.TTI.COM> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 89 19:33:45 GMT Lines: 57 In article <8457@ttidca.TTI.COM> hollombe@ttidcb.tti.com (The Polymath) writes: >In article gary@sun.mcs.clarkson.edu (Gary Levin) writes: >}... The alternative (for the Net >}incarnation) would seem to be to ignore them, easily done with the >}omniously named KILL files. I'd rather not send someone to Coventry ... > >The Polymath joins the conversation: > [...and suggests that we send 1 (one) letter to extraordinarily obnoxious people who come here, and then completely ignore them until they have learned to behave in an appropriate manner for The Place. (If I have mangled your meaning too much, I apologize, and please correct me. I wanted to keep this brief but not allow it to be incomprehensible.)] I agree completely with this suggestion, and was planning on posting something similar, but hadn't yet gotten it worded right. Now I don't have to, as the Polymath did it better than I could have. The rest of this letter is simply a repeat of the caution against applying this sanction unless it is completely unavoidable, so if you have seen the original, don't bother to read the rest of this. I just wanted it to be available again, as it is very true. Greg McMullan mcmullan@eddie.mit.edu keeper of FTPable alt.callahans archives >"It should go without saying that a person's behavior would have to be >deemed seriously, gratuitously obnoxious before instituting such a course >of action. I don't think the harmless message that triggered this >discussion qualifies as such, for example. Also, many people come through >Mike's door in pain. We mustn't let anger born of anguish exclude someone >who really needs Callahan's. > >"Alas, the appearance of immature net.fools is as regular as the migration >of birds. Sooner or later, one is bound to stumble in Mike's door. My >fear is one nasty flame war could seriously damage what we've built here. >The people would be the same, of course, but the atmosphere would change. >The safety of Callahan's would be flawed, possibly irreparably. I think >that would be a great tragedy. > >"And so, a toast: > > "To solidarity in the face of adversity. > >"What say you? > >-- >The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, hollombe@ttidca.tti.com) Illegitimis non >Citicorp(+)TTI Carborundum >3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 450-9111, x2483 >Santa Monica, CA 90405 {csun | philabs | psivax}!ttidca!hollombe