Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!uunet!philmtl!philabs!ttidca!hollombe From: hollombe@ttidca.TTI.COM (The Polymath) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Some thoughts on relationships and pedestals (long) Message-ID: <8600@ttidca.TTI.COM> Date: 20 Dec 89 00:10:20 GMT Reply-To: hollombe@ttidca.tti.com (The Polymath) Distribution: alt Organization: Citicorp/TTI, Santa Monica Lines: 116 The Polymath steps to the line and proposes: "To all here and everywhere: Happy holidays and a joyous new year!" "Now that I have your attention (-: ... I've actually managed to clear decks for the new project and have a little time on my hands. That means this and the next post are going to be somewhat windy. (Getting to be a habit, that. Must be the booze (-:{ )." "I'm going to break my rule again and present some unasked for free advice. There seem to be a lot of people here going through the same hell I went through at their age. I don't know if it will help or not, but I can tell you what I learned from it and how I got out of it. Your mileage may vary. "(Ladies, this will be told from a decidedly male point of view. If I get something wrong or out of line, feel free to correct me. I acknowledge that much of what follows could have the sexes reversed with little other modification). "First, the idea's been expressed that not needing a girlfriend is the key to getting one. This is almost correct. It's ok to want/need a girlfriend. In fact, it's almost impossible not to. The trick is to adopt the attitude that it's not _the_ most important thing in the world. "In practice, this means when you go to things like Sierra Club hikes or Mensa meetings or whatever you go to enjoy the activity. If anything else happens, that's nice, but it's not what you're there for. If you go with the intent of finding a relationship, or just getting laid, you are _guaranteeing_ yourself disappointment and a miserable time. If you go with the intent of enjoying the activity, you will _at least_ have a good time doing that. "If you do meet someone, ask them to join you for coffee after the event. If they agree, rejoice and _don't expect more than conversation and coffee_ -- a pleasant enough passtime, IMHO. If you like each other, make another date and see what happens. "Note: You will go home alone much more often than not. This is _normal_. It's true of _most_ people, regardless of perceptions. It is _not_ a negative reflection on yourself. "Digression: The Slot-Machine Theory of Why You Think Everyone But You is Getting Laid "The casinos in Las Vegas have got the psychology of gambling down to a fine art. The most obvious example of this is in the design of slot-machines (one-armed bandits). They are built to make lots of noise when they pay off -- no matter how small the amount. They are perfectly silent when they keep your money. Standing in a busy room full of them, you hear payoffs almost continually. You don't notice they're only a fraction of the machines' activity. "Much the same is true of singles parties and similar venues. You tend to notice the people leaving in couples because that's the situation you're most concerned with. It's easy to overlook that most people who arrive alone leave alone. You can't even see that most of the exiting couples go out for coffee and conversation, then go their separate ways home. It is, of course, common for people to boast of their conquests (real or imaginary) and remain silent about their nights alone. This adds to the illusion. "The above is my theory, which is mine and no one else's. (-: "Now, there's been some discussion of the pros and cons of placing women on pedestals. Think about it. A pedestal, like any small, confining space, is a prison. I wouldn't want to be on one. "A more generic term is "puppy dog behavior." This is very difficult to learn not to do. All your instincts are telling you that if you're just nice enough, long enough, she'll come around and love you for what you are. "Your instincts are wrong. This is not true. It will not work. Ever. "I've had the misfortune of being on both sides of this situation. It isn't pleasant from either angle. If you find yourself being a puppy dog, willing to warp your life to any lengths to please the one you love (whether she wants it or not), the best thing you can do is back off -- maybe even end the relationship -- but, certainly, give it a rest. Note: This will hurt like hell. "The best way to reduce the hurt is to find someone else. Remember, going into puppy dog mode is a sure sign she's not interested and your quest is hopeless. (Even if she was friendly, puppy dogging will turn her off eventually. It's very unattractive). Painful though it will be, your best bet by far is to accept the inevitable and move on. There are many many fish in the sea. "Caution: There are a few unscrupulous women in the world who won't hesitate to take advantage of puppy dogs. They'll take everything you're willing to give, which is everything, and return just enough to keep you hoping. This is a pretty good description of Hell and can go on for years. If you think you're involved with such a person, run, do not walk, as far and as fast as you can to get away from them. (I left the country for two years. Your needs may vary). "Some final related thoughts: "If you're going to be alone it's better to be so with pride and dignity than without. "Abandoning pride and dignity will destroy your self-esteem. It will not make you attractive to anyone but the sharks and leeches. "The above opinions are the end product of a lot of years and some considerable pain. They've worked for me. I hope they can do someone here some good. However, there are no warranties, express or implied. And now for something completely different ... -- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, hollombe@ttidca.tti.com) Illegitimis non Citicorp(+)TTI Carborundum 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 450-9111, x2483 Santa Monica, CA 90405 {csun | philabs | psivax}!ttidca!hollombe Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!uunet!philmtl!philabs!ttidca!hollombe From: hollombe@ttidca.TTI.COM (The Polymath) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: My first extended family (long) Message-ID: <8601@ttidca.TTI.COM> Date: 20 Dec 89 00:38:37 GMT Reply-To: hollombe@ttidca.tti.com (The Polymath) Distribution: alt Organization: Citicorp/TTI, Santa Monica Lines: 149 "Give me another, Mike. I'm on a roll." (-: "A toast: To all the places that were, are, will be and can be Callahan's." "It's been noted, by no less than Spider himself, that any place can be Callahan's, given the right people. I'd like to tell the story of how I found my first extended family. "First, a little background: For reasons I won't go into just now, I was basically a very lonely kid in high school with no real friends and, certainly, no girlfriends. I hung out with the folk singers (this was mid '60s) because they picked a pretty area of campus to hang out and the music was entertaining. Eventually I started to learn guitar and join them. "Somewhere along there, I heard of this place called The Garret -- vague things about it's being a coffee house and general folk music venue. It was just up the road from school, but only open nights. It sounded interesting, so I summoned some courage and went to investigate. "I'll describe the place later. For now, suffice that I took a seat around the fire place and awaited events. A waitress came up to take my order for a drink (no alcohol served). "For some reason, she rested her hand on my shoulder while she was talking to me. It was a small gesture, probably insignificant to her, but _no one had ever done that before_. I couldn't remember _any_ woman not a blood relative _ever_ voluntarily touching me. The feeling was ... well ... it played a big part in my deciding to come back. (The music was good, too). "A few weeks later I did come back. Same music, same friendly people. And so it went. I started going there weekly, got to know a few people, started going more often, got to know a few more people, brought my guitar, played with others ... The Garret became my home and haven. I was a regular, occasionally an employee (everything from bus boy to Maitre d' and, as always, general fixit), and part of the family for over seven years 'til they shut their doors for the last time in '71 -- a sad day for us all. "'Us all', BTW, were the dozens of other people who'd become part of the family the same way I did. "So, now let me tell you some more about the place: "The first thing you'd notice about The Garret was the smell. Exotic coffees, smoke from the fire and an undertone of kitchen smells all combined in a wonderful mixture that's difficult to describe. "The building itself was a plain, boxy structure, painted black with a red awning over the door and a display window advertising Terrea Lea, half-owner and the only official entertainer. (More about her later). The inside walls, and ceiling, were painted red, but the lighting was so low you hardly registered the color. Small tables and bentwood chairs were on the left, as you entered. On the right was a huge, circular, brick fireplace surrounded by chairs -- the ones most often filled by musicians. Past the fire place was a large round coffee table with more chairs and a couch. Past that was a pay pool table, often covered to serve as more seating. Benches along some of the walls and even mats on the floor on crowded nights completed the customer area. "(We had an interesting relationship with the Fire Department. The Garret was rated for 100 person occupancy. One busy night we counted 350 people in the audience (and 20 more waiting outside in the rain (-: ). The Fire Inspector showed up, walked from the front door to the back and told B.J. "I'm coming back in 10 minutes and count the house." Then he stepped outside. Somehow, we cleared the place in time.) "Past the tables on the left was a tiny stage where Terrea would perform (as many as six sets a night in The Garret's heyday). Past that was the bar and kitchen where B.J. Moore, the other half-owner, mixed exotic concoctions of coffee, chocolate, espresso and ice cream, among other things. There was also a back room -- used exclusively for storage -- and the usual restroom facilities. "There was also the second front door (the building used to be a duplex), notable only because a burglar kicked the old one in one day, so I built them a new one from scratch. Nothing fancy, but at one point my bedroom was ankle-deep in wood shavings. (-: "Now about the people: "Terrea Lea is a folksinger par excellence. Opera trained, she had to cut her volume back by about 2/3 to keep from blowing the windows out (-: . Before opening The Garret she sang with Hank Williams on his TV shows and albums. She has at least half a dozen albums published (and long since out of print, alas). She also guest hosted "The Folk World of Jimmy Rogers" TV show and did some TV acting as well. For 13 years she was the mainstay of The Garret. They only booked other performers when she was too ill to go on -- a rare event. She must have been doing something right because people kept coming back. "B.J. Moore was the business half of the partnership. I can't remember a night The Garret was open that she wasn't there. She gave me my first "real world" job -- washing dishes at $10 a night. Later, Maitre d' was added to my duties and I got $15 a night (no tips). (When times were hard, I worked for free food and no money). "Liz Lea, Terrea's mother, was the cashier -- a feisty woman in her 70's who firmly believed everything Joe McCarthy ever said about communist conspiracies. Fortunately, she wasn't pushy about it. (-: "Sue Tjulander and Stacey Lubell rounded out the permanent staff as the two waitresses. Stacey was the one who hooked me with her hand on my shoulder. (Funny, I don't think I ever told her that story). The kitchen help turned over a lot, but they were all friends and regular customers at some point. "Then, of course, there were the customers. At some point, just about all the major folk groups and singers visited The Garret. Many were regulars and/or friends of Terrea. One night we figured a bomb in the place would have wiped out more than half the folksinging talent in the country (Bud & Travis, Peter, Paul & Mary, Judy Collins, Joan Baez, Theodore Bikkel, Hoyt Axton, Joni Mitchel ... and others I can't remember). "That was one of the truly great aspects of the place. All of these people would sit around the fire and trade songs with each other and anyone else who was there. Where else could you go up to someone like Peter Yarrow and say "Would you run through that progression again? I didn't quite get the middle bit"? And he would! I learned to play guitar sitting around that fireplace (and the stage). "And, of course, there were the just plain, and not so plain, folks. Chris, the artist -- one of who's paintings hangs on my wall. Ann and Joy, both now in the computer biz. Derek, a civilian contractor to the military during the Viet Nam war. Cathy -- managing a hotel in England, last I heard. Two or three Johns, all of whom taught me much about guitar. Liz, a world class volley ball player, late of the U.S. Navy. And on and on ... "Some I got along with better than others. Most had more than their share of eccentricity. All were family and pulled together when the going got rough. They kept me alive and sane through some trying times. "Well, enough for now. There's a few more tellable stories associated with the place (i.e.: You didn't have to be there), but they'd probably take another 100 lines or so. I'll tell them some other time, if anyone's interested. P.S.: My sympathies to the bear in the dull corner with the shiny toys. I'm expecting some new toys myself, but they're all marked "some assembly required" and the person giving them has a whip in his other hand. They're really his toys, you see. It's going to be a busy year ... -- The Polymath (aka: Jerry Hollombe, hollombe@ttidca.tti.com) Illegitimis non Citicorp(+)TTI Carborundum 3100 Ocean Park Blvd. (213) 450-9111, x2483 Santa Monica, CA 90405 {csun | philabs | psivax}!ttidca!hollombe Path: mit-eddie!bloom-beacon!bu-cs!gilly From: gilly@bucsf.bu.edu (Gilly Rosenthol) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Happy merry, and a joyous whatsit Message-ID: <44982@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Date: 20 Dec 89 15:34:53 GMT Sender: daemon@bu-cs.BU.EDU Reply-To: gilly@bucsf.bu.edu (Gilly Rosenthol) Distribution: alt Organization: Boston University Lines: 34 The door flies open, and a very rushed Gilly blows in. "Well, I just finished my last final," she exults. "Think it went pretty well, too. But now I have to go out and find my mom's Chanuka present (yes, I'm Jewish - Orthodox, if anyone is interested in discussing religion. Any Wiccans interested in a discussion?), finish packing, and catch my plane home. I came in to the computer center, just to read my mail, I told myself." Gilly looks slightly abashed. "That was an hour ago. I just couldn't resist dropping in. I hadn't realized before I did just how much I'll miss this place, and these people. I know I haven't written much lately, but I plead finals. Unfortunately, I have no way of dropping in from home, so this is goodbye until January 14th or so. Take care of yourselves - you are very special people. And if anyone is cut off from Callahan's, like me, and needs someone for anything, my phone number at home is (215) 667-3721." She glances at her watch. "Got to go. You wouldn't believe how hard it is for me to tear myself away from this keyboard right now. And the thought of how long it will take to catch up when I get back...!" She rolls her eyes. And after wasting (rather, enjoying) several more precious momnents by hugging everyone in the whole damn place, she is off. But she pauses at the door, as a an afterthought, to call to Shadow "The fudge was splendiferous! I thank you, my roommate thanks you, my friends all thank you, and when I get home and make some more, I'm sure my family will thank you." And before he can respond, the door closes, and she is gone. (By the waqy - does anyone else live in the Philly area? If so, give me a call and maybe we can get together.) -- +--------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+ | Gilly Rosenthol |"Don't dream it, be it" -The Rocky Horror Picture Show | | gilly@bucsb.bu.edu |"On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. | | | L'essentiel est invisible aux yeux." -Le Petit Prince | +--------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+ Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!jefyoung From: jefyoung@pawl.rpi.edu (Jeffrey Young) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: "Show me the way to go home.." Summary: (PROBABLY LONG POSTING) Message-ID: <*S'DK^@rpi.edu> Date: 20 Dec 89 15:49:47 GMT References: <8601@ttidca.TTI.COM> Distribution: alt Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY Lines: 123 Jeff continues contemplating the fire, turning his head slightly as Jilara speaks up. When she is finished, his attention is totally fixed on her, his face sad, and one instinctively feels him trying to absorb some of that pain off of her. As she sits down, he moves over to sit next to her, after everyone else has given her a hug, and puts his arm around her, giving her a hug while whispering something in her ear. Those still watching get the sense that the youth is older than the lady, though the kid hasn't even finished his 18th year (exactly 24 hours to go, folks..) ..as if perhaps he'd lived another lifetime and was using the strength a long and successful life gives. Then again, perhaps it is a trick of the light. Regardless, Jeff gives Jilara a final squeeze, and walks purposefully up to the bar, phazing back into Taldin The Blue Unicorn (hasn't been that in days..) as he gets there. "Mike, champagne all around, and a glass of ice water to those who don't drink." "Yes, I know it isn't New Year's, yet, but who needs to follow the calendar? I've got two toasts, one where you don't smask the glasses into the fire, and one you can if you want. The first is to a momentous occasion which doubtless some of you have noticed, and are probably saying 'Aww..I wanted that..' but isn't it appriate that a newcomer get the honor?" "What are you talking about, hoss?", Fast Eddie asks. Taldin grins, the first smile to cross his face since what seems like an eternity ago. The Unicorn grins, and points (with his horn) at the small calendar arrangement above the fireplace. "Friends, a toast to Callahan's, where at my site has just broken FIVE HUNDRED articles...and a special toast to Elsabear, whose entrance move that was!" "To Callahan's! May we see another 500 more at least!" Quite a few people throw their glasses in the fire, anyhow, but Tal doesn't seem to mind. He's kept his glass, and his eyes and demeanor seem somehow less merry, but almost grim. He walks back over to the table where Jilara, Magyk, Phoenix, Gilly, Greywolf and Moonchilde sit, just at the far right of the chalk line. With a flick of his horn, he sends the glass loudly shattering into the fire. "To homes, may they be a warm place to go!" >>>>>>>>>>>>>CRAAAASSSSHHHHH!!!!<<<<<<<< "I know, that on Friday when I leave, that I can go home to a place which I call home, though in fact I've spent very little time in (my parents moved while I was up at school) that house. The saying "The home is blessed by the people in it" is true in my case , as it is to most. My parents always treated me well, they feeling that physical force served no real punishment purpose after age six. I never got really abused, have no real horror stories to tell, although my dad is a bit of a perfectionist. But even he accepts the fact that this is a lot tougher world to live in since he went to college, and that nobody is perfect. People make mistakes, and don't always pass everything with flying colors. I shall have to consider myself very lucky that I have a loving family to go home to after I've finished this semester. They put up with things from me that many wouldn't...and my mom's a fair empath, so she can tell that I'm lying when I say, 'nothing's wrong.'" "I know there are some of you out there who are not going away, or worse," (this bit said with a glance at the empty cushion) "to a place where you will NOT be loved..aye, but rather as someone who the people you have to stay with feel they can kick around. Nay, I will not call them parents, because no parents should do the things to their kids that I've heard of. Somehwo it's not fair that your 'parents' can divorce each other, and they can throw you out of the house, but the child is forbidden by law to get away from his own parents without "just cause." Parents who wantonly beat and molest their own kids are not fit to be parents! However, that isn't the worst thing.. I know a person (who turned into an empathic vampire BTW..) whose mother would beat her with firewood while telling her she *LOVED* her... the poor girl is messed up a little in the head because of it. She STILL loves her mother, Gods know why. I think that is the only time a mask would be useful, to shield the pain you feel, to not give them the satifaction of watching you suffer..I thank whatever Guardians I may have that that was not the case with me.." "Don't think I am a hypocrite. I'm not. I just happened to be lucky, and I guess can never know what it is like to grow up in a house of pain. It is a fate I would not wish on my worst enemy (then again, I don't have any enemies..) and I feel for those friends who have gone through it. May we be better parents to our children (when and if we have them) than our own were..." "And if you see someone, be it a relative, aunt or uncle, giving their little kids a hard time they don't deserve, give the kid a bit of your love.. show him or her that not all family isn't like Mom and Dad. Perhaps that is the reason there are so many people in pain and who enjoy giving pain out there-- because noone cared for them when they needed it most." Taldin chuckles ruefully. "I just know I'll get stuck with Wylf and Dranga's kids when they go off camping.. I can almost hear the 'Uncle Taldin..' now....." "This is the important thing to remember, folks, and I'm sure each and every one of us who are here now (with maybe the one exception if the Cynic, who is allowed) agree...." "You'll always be with family while you visit Callahans." "Thank you..", I say, amid the resounding crash of glass.... -Taldin The Blue Unicorn Defender Of Light Furry At Large. P.S. Yes, I figured out how to use Ctl-L.. -- "You are blue, Unicorn.. the Blue of clear, cloudless days where everything seems like it's going right and nothing could go wrong.. and the Blue of despair and lonliness." jefyoung@pawl.rpi.edu Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!cs.utexas.edu!mailrus!rutgers!njin!princeton!phoenix!jwbirdsa From: jwbirdsa@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (James Webster Birdsall) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Logic? Keywords: logic suicide Message-ID: <12340@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> Date: 20 Dec 89 16:35:34 GMT References: <12303@phoenix.Princeton.EDU> <6319@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> Reply-To: jwbirdsa@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (James Webster Birdsall) Organization: Princeton University, NJ Lines: 26 Context: Shadow wrote about using logic to justify living over suicide. I questioned his invocation of logic in this context. He replies: In article <6319@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu> ez000691@pollux (Shadow) writes: > Shadow shakes a finger at the scarecrow. "You misunderstand, sir. >No, you can't use logic to prove that you will be happy. >...you can't predict a life >of unhappiness any more than you can predict a life of happiness At this point the scarecrow begins to laugh uproariously. When he finally has himself under control again, he waves a hand at Shadow. "You win already. You hit it right on the head there -- I forgot that I have my defaults set for reasonable pessimism. You're perfectly correct about the predictions, except that there are a lot more possible ways to be unhappy than to be happy. "As for the rest of it, you're right. I yield the match." He swigs the rest of his drink and holds the empty glass high. "A toast to logic!" he says, and tosses the glass in a high, clean arc which brings it to fragmented rest in the fireplace... -- James W. Birdsall jwbirdsa@phoenix.Princeton.EDU jwbirdsa@pucc.BITNET ...allegra!princeton!phoenix!jwbirdsa Compu$erve: 71261,1731 "For it is the doom of men that they forget." -- Merlin Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!jt1o+ From: jt1o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph L. Traub) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Dancing to the Fireplace Message-ID: <0ZXvs9W00UiyQIdkdW@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: 20 Dec 89 17:14:49 GMT References: <328@inmet.UUCP> Organization: Class of '91, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 31 In-Reply-To: <328@inmet.UUCP> Excerpts from netnews.alt.callahans: 19-Dec-89 Dancing to the Fireplace Justin C. M. M. Waks@inm (2824) > "Further, remember this: if God can be said to have any one trait, it is > a sense of humor. "Aye, 'tis true", Moonchilde chuckles, "and therefore, deserving of a slighlty different toast. "A glass of Chambourd Mike." A snap of the fingers and the glass and dollar exchange places. "Therefore, To Irons, for as we all know, God is an iron." *Smash* _______________________________________________________________________________ ** | * * |Joseph Traub -- Carnegie Mellon * * |Internet: jt1o@andrew.cmu.edu ****************************************** |UUCP: harvard!andrew.cmu.edu!jt1o * Blessed * * Blessed * | * Be! * An it * Be! * |__________________________________ * * harm none, * * | * * do as thou * * |"If pro is the opposite of con, * * wilt. * * |then what is congress?" * IO * * IO * | * EVOHE ** EVOHE * |___________________________________ * IO * * IO * | * KORE * * KORE * |This space intentionally left blank * * * * |This one too! * * * * |And ditto once again! ** ** | ___________________________________________|___________________________________ Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!gilly From: gilly@bucsf.bu.edu (Gilly Rosenthol) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Do not open 'til 12/21 Message-ID: <44986@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Date: 20 Dec 89 17:37:03 GMT Sender: daemon@bu-cs.BU.EDU Reply-To: gilly@bucsf.bu.edu (Gilly Rosenthol) Distribution: alt Organization: Boston University Lines: 29 (Okay, I lied. I had to stop in just once more. Glad I did!) A series of dull s is heard at the heavy wooden door, as though someone were kicking it. When someone finally gets up to check, a very cold Gilly with her hands full comes in. "About time," she mutters good-naturedly. She manages to get over the Taldin's table without dropping anything - a minor miracle. In fact, the icing on the cake is not even damaged. Because that, of course, is what one of the things she was carrying is - a huge (big enough for all some-thousand people in the Place) birthday cake, with blue icing and a picture of a unicorn on top. The Phoenix obligingly lights the candles, while everyone gathers around. Fast Eddie leads everyone through Happy Birthday, then swings into something that sound suspiciously like "The Old Gray Mare," only with the color and species of equine changed. "Make a wish, Tal," says Gilly softly. He stares at the candles with a far-away look for a moment, then, with a deep breath, blows out all the candles. Gilly hands him a large box, neatly wrapeed and tied with a bow. "Open it!" she orders. And when the top is lifted off, hundreds of warm fuzzies swarm out of the box onto the unicorn-lad's lap. "Happy birthday, and many, many more," Gilly smiles, before she leaves the Place for the last time this year. (No, I mean it this time. I'm going to check IRC, and then log out. Really. Well, I'll try, anyway. Addictive, this place is!) -- +--------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+ | Gilly Rosenthol |"Don't dream it, be it" -The Rocky Horror Picture Show | | gilly@bucsb.bu.edu |"On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. | | | L'essentiel est invisible aux yeux." -Le Petit Prince | +--------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+ Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM!jane From: jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM (Jane Beckman x2637) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Trust Message-ID: <8912201419.AA14638@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM> Date: 20 Dec 89 22:19:38 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 87 Jilara smiles at all those who have given her hugs. Her smile is a little wan, but her psyche is still trying to grow back. She's always claimed that she's like a planaria worm with a neutronium core. You can step on her, cut pieces off, and generally deal out stuff that cracks creatures who live inside hard shells, but she pulls the cells back together and manages to regrow. There's a legend that it's the heritage of the Walker Women---the ability to survive through anything because of an inner core of strength. Her ancestors were mountain men, who took their women into some pretty nasty situations. "Trust," she sighs. "It's a damned precious commodity. There's a line that stuck with me, in Charles de Lint's book "Svaha." (I recommend De Lint to all empaths here, by the way.) "A certain element of trust is required." A warrior-woman says it to a fellow who's been dealing with the Yakusa, who is going to get wasted unless he opens himself up to a possible trap, by trusting her." She sighs. "Trust is not easy. I really do believe, though, that sometimes a person will behave much better than expected if you show a belief in them. I know there have been a couple times when it was enough to turn me around, when I was about to turn onto a trail that would have been very, very bad. Sometimes, though, people react the other way, hit you and run... That's why superheros take it on the chin, so much..." "I said that Jilara was a mask. Actually, some of the people who really know me think that I'm a multiple personality. I know that sometimes, it's like living in a body with several siblings who think and feel different things, and talk but don't share the same experiences. You feel like you can remember a shadow of a memory, but not the real memory, like something someone told you, or a book. My mind is a house of mirrors. I can switch channels, and get entirely different experience-lines. They say you have to love yourself before you can love others. I don't know. I think I like Jilara, but I hate and dispise Jane. Sometimes, she lets people tromp on her, and Jilara has to come rescue her. Hmmm---I seem to be the Narrator at the moment. Funny, but I just realized Jilara doesn't hate Jane, but someone here does. Jilara defends Jane, and talks sense to her. As I say, my mind is a very confusing place." She shakes her head. "You think this is confusing, it's really hard living inside it. People say I can juggle so many activities and responsibilities I must have clones, but I do it by compartmentalizing everything. It's like a data tree---scan down a path and find what you need. I seem to have lost some addresses or dismounted some entire file systems, though... And what happened recently? A wrong key got hit, and now I'm in the midst of a core-dump of my inner being. Not fun." She shakes her head again, and breathes deep, centering. "Damned shakes keep coming," she says. "Gotta breathe right and get on top of it." Her mind sorts through. "Trust, ah yes. Back to trust. I did a small freak-out last night. Why? A friend asked me to marry him. It wasn't as threatening as if it had been a person I considered spiritkin, but it was still threatening. He's a nice guy, but I can put up with about 3-hour doses before he drives me crazy. He's into analyzing things to death. He also has decided that I have answers to these great spiritual questions, and thinks that if he marries me, he can kind of absorb them and "accelerate his learning curve," as he put it. And what was worse, as I am sitting there going "How am I going to deal with this?" with my stomach in a knot, he tries to FORCE me to kiss him. I freaked. I used a kung-fu block. Anyone who doesn't treat affection delicately gets one of two reactions: I fight or I just space out and go into a complete shutdown. Recently, Jilara not letting Jane turn into a victim, I fight more. I know he wanted to help, but he's known me for 9 years, he should know I've got freaky reactions. I've been working on it; I don't slug people who come up behind me suddenly, any more. I don't startle as much as I used to (well, a lot in the night, lately, but that's different). Trust. Not easy. Believe it or not, I've had a couple almost-normal relationships. (We won't go into the ones with guys trying to hurt or dominate me...) But the factor of trust is primal. But I'm doing some gutsy things, lately, forcing that element of trust... Like turning net-friends into real people, in the flesh-and-blood world. I'm scared to death of one, because it involves going out of state to see him, but "an element of trust is required." Quite frankly, having faced some pretty nasty stuff, you sometimes step off that cliff and trust that the safety-net will hold." She frowns, looks thoughtful. "I'm rambling again. I just wanted to let all you folks at Callahans know how much I appreciate you, and how much you're doing toward keeping me sane. (Whatever that is.) If I thanked everyone, the email would pile pretty deep. Glad I found the Place when I did. I NEED you! HUGS!" ---Jilara the Exile (I hope.) "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most." A. Brilliant (alternate identity may be jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.com---don't you love computers with identity crises?) Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!oliveb!apple!usc!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!helios.ee.lbl.gov!ux1.lbl.gov!panetta From: panetta@ux1.lbl.gov Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: A newcomer's toast Keywords: knewcomer, first toast Message-ID: <4498@helios.ee.lbl.gov> Date: 20 Dec 89 23:57:29 GMT References: <1064@swbatl.UUCP> Sender: usenet@helios.ee.lbl.gov Reply-To: panetta@ux1.lbl.gov () Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory, Berkeley Lines: 41 X-Local-Date: 20 Dec 89 15:57:29 PST The door creaks open and in steps a man wearing a suit almost sixty years out of date, carrying (of all things) a double barreled shotgun and a fireman's axe. He's about 6'6" tall, tipping the scales at at least 240 lbs. Some of the patrons near him notice that the axe is inscribed with symbols that seem to writhe around its head. He steps up to the bar and asks, "Is Prohibition in effect here?" When Mike shakes his head no, he orders a shot of Glenfiddich (neat), places a dollar bill on the bar, and turns to survey the room. "I am new here at Callahan's...I have only been reading it for about three weeks. Before now, I have not responded to the net because I felt that I hadn't anything to say. Recently I read Brian Gilstrap's letter about his ex-fiancee, Diane, and his feelings about her. "Brian, I am another who believes in giving people the benifit of the doubt. I think that if Diane wishes to see you, she should, BUT with the full understanding that if she does, nothing will come of it. Remember, she has done three about-faces already, there may be more. I feel that if you let yourself get involved with her again, you may be setting yourself up to be hurt again. I know how difficult it is to get over the pain of breaking up, but try to heal. Ok?" He turns, steps up to the line, raises the glass and says, "To relation- ships. May they always be what we expect, or more...never less." Whizz---crash. After standing for a moment staring at the large pile of glass shards from numerous toasts, he turns to leave. At the door he turns and says, "Don't worry about the shotgun and axe. They're for Cthulhoid nasties." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, Laz is a persona. I aquired him during a Call of Cthulhu run, and have kept him ever since. My real name is Jim Panetta and I'm a Physics (smile when you say that) major at Drexel U in Philly. At this time I'm working in Berkeley for the DOE. Jim-Laz Panetta@dls.lbl.gov Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!psuvax1!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!rpi!image.soe.clarkson.edu!news From: weilercw@clutx.clarkson.edu (C. "Puppy" Weiler,,2684087,) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: A newcomer's toast Message-ID: <1989Dec21.005157.5919@sun.soe.clarkson.edu> Date: 21 Dec 89 00:51:57 GMT References: <4498@helios.ee.lbl.gov> Sender: news@sun.soe.clarkson.edu Reply-To: weilercw@clutx.clarkson.edu Organization: Clarkson University, Potsdam, NY Lines: 48 Brian: I don't know if you've read my introduction letter ("Greetings fellow Sensitives"), but I had the same dillema when I broke up with my girlfriend. I never got as far as proposing to her (only because she just about ran scream- ing from the room when the word marriage was mentioned), but that's just a technicality. It took me a month just to be able to talk to her again. I just had to deal with the fact that she did not want to have a loving relationship with me. Once I dealt with that, and kept in mind firmly that there would never be another loving relationship between us, we got along great and we haven't had any problems with renewed feelings and the like. We've talked at least 2 or 3 dozen times on the phone, and seen each other a few times, and it's always been pleasant friendship between us. I talk to her about people I'm interested in dating, or problems I'm having with friends, and we even joke about the time when we were going out and the times we shared. Just a couple of observations: * She may be setting herself up for, as you put it, "not X" because she feels guilty about the way she treated you, and doesn't feel she deserves to have "X." I don't know how prominent that is in her mind and emotions, but it may be there. * Remember that she has a mind of her own. If the guy she's seeing is a jerk, then your only duty as a FRIEND is to bring it to her attention. If she persists in continuing the relationship, you will only frustrate yourself, and put a strain on your friendship. Once you stop taking responsibility for her happiness, now that she is NOT the center of your life right now, you will be able to relax and enjoy your newfound freedom and opportunities. I sincerely hope that this has helped you, and that you take any advice with the grain of salt that comes from someone commenting only on what he has read. "To Love and the Peace of Mind that never quite seems to follow it." <<<<<< CRASH >>>>>> Sincerely, Christopher Weiler weilercw@clutx.clarkson.edu 52 Willow St. Belmont, MA 02178 to have "X". I don't know how prominent that h