Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!sunic!bmc!kuling!jonasf From: jonasf@kuling.UUCP (Jonas Flygare) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Some thoughts while we wait for Christmas.. Message-ID: <1308@kuling.UUCP> Date: 20 Dec 89 22:59:26 GMT Organization: Dep. of Computer Systems, Upsala University, Sweden Lines: 83 Flax stirs at the table where he (and the ferrety furrie) have been sitting, listening. After leaving the ferret on the table (where it promptly starts to examine the content of a nearby glass, much to the glass owners dismay..) he walks up to the bar. The coin on the counter is replaced with a glass of dark red wine. Strange.. He looks worn. After contemplating in between sips of wine he talks: " Sometimes the line between being happy and feeling miserable is very thin. To me, it doesn't matter much, as I thrive on feelings, and I can actually sometimes take a look at myself when I am depressed, and start smiling, albeit a sad smile, because it strikes me how silly it all is. I don't mind being alone, as I know I have friends, and that they like me. (Or so I hope, anyway.. ) But the strange thing is, even though I like to taunt people I meet, and take every opportunity to take cheap swings at them, I am not an unfriendly person. Apart from being very modest of course.. Anyway, this first toast goes to all heroes/heroines I've met, to my friend in school who dared to quit a promising career as a sportsman, to take up acting in Australia, and is now studying to become a medic, to my sister who found a life in the U.S., much to my parents dismay.. to all the people who overcame their weaknesses to do what they really wanted." >fling< >Crash< Another coin is replaced with yet another glass.. " Some thoughts about being alone... Loneliness is in itself not a bad thing, and I do enjoy it at times. It is also very nice to have friends, and my close friends know that at times I want to step aside, to be on my own, to gather my thoughts. Every time someone have seen me alone, and tried to comfort me, I have in some way struck out to make them let go. My friends know this, and leave me until I feel ready to talk again. I have lost friends who did not recognize my need for seclusion. Then again, at times life treats me bad. Those are the times when I bring out all the rage that burns in me, when I see the wrongdoings around me, and that I cannot make right. People have told me that my eyes can shift in seconds from being warm, to icily cold, and back as thoughts cross my mind. I believe them, as I can feel myself closing all the armoured hatches of my mind, and focusing all the rage into one razorsharp edge, directed at solving the problem. Then, again, looking at myself makes me smile, as I know how this is opposed to my true self. One of the things that make me do like this, is when people bad-mouth someone or distort facts, to make it suit their malign purposes. I am a believer in truth, although I like to tell stories. But, there is truth, and there is _truth_, as well as there exists some bending of facts to make a good story. For that purpose I will always defend objectivity, and a multicoloured, multifaceted outlook on what happens around me. There may be some here who have seen my struggle with this in "certain other" newsgroups. Encouragement and opposition via email is greatly appreciated. " (His posture shifting, smile returns, as well as the dreamy atmosphere that earlier permeated the room, after this short excursion into reality) "But, this is not the time for rage, or seclusion, nor is it the time for anybody to feel loneliness. So, to share some good feelings, I'd like you to read a little story, or seeing a movie. The story is called "Linen's Lipstick", and can be found in the recent issue of Heavy Metal. The movie, leaving the same silly smile on my face is called "Romauld et Juliette", and you probably have to look hard for it, as it is french. This drink is to to all who share this warm, silly, happy feeling that maybe there is still good in the world, to the spirit of the season, and to all the beings who put up with incoherent, long-speaking thinkers like myself. " >Gulp< >fling< >Crash< He returns to the table, just in time to save the glass, the content of it, as well as the fingers of the now-quite-amused person who have been having quite a bout with the ferrety furrie. (I must admit that both fingers and toes have been nipped, but with no harmful intent..:-) The furry climbs his shoulder, nips the right ear and looks longingly at the glass, now being safe and sound. Flax looks a little sheepish now, thinking back on what he said, realizing that some may think he really is a fool.. -- jonasf@kuling.docs.uu.se : "Doedth eddydthig dthrike you adth dthrayge Jonas (flax) Flygare : aboud dthidth houdth?" -- Dirk Gently Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!corum From: corum@bucsf.bu.edu (Gilbert Loomis) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Greetings fellow Sensitives Message-ID: <45006@bu-cs.BU.EDU> Date: 21 Dec 89 05:25:34 GMT References: <1989Dec19.192010.3800@sun.soe.clarkson.edu> Sender: daemon@bu-cs.BU.EDU Organization: Boston University Lines: 89 Summary: Hey, I'm new. In-reply-to: weilercw@clutx.clarkson.edu's message of 19 Dec 89 19:20:10 GMT Well folks, welcome to the first ever usenet posting from a 2-day old account. I know that the crowd in the Place will bear with me if anyone can possibly do so. A figure steps in from the blizzard, dressed all in fine leather and plate mail. When first he steps through the door, he seems to be a figure out of legend, as his scarlet cloak swirls around him, and the light glints off the jet-black stone in his forehead. As he moves into the room there seem to be clouds swirling about him...and by the time he reaches the bar he is revealed as a thin young man of average height in jeans and a Beethoven sweatshirt. He hands Mike a two-dollar bill and says, 'A shot of Maker's Mark and a shot of Rumpel Mintz, if you would.' While Mike pulls out the familiar wax-sealed bottle of bourbon, he turns to the crowd and says, "I'm new here, but then again I've been here for 7 years, one could say...I just read 173 postings in one sitting, and I wanted to put in my two cents worth... "I'm glad that the Place is here, and that I've finally found it... "I wonder how many of us have also read _The_Princess_Bride_ (Goldman), from which "Pyotr's Story" lovingly borrows, and how many read (or had read to us) _T.A._for_Tots_ (T.A. = Transactional Analysis, home of the warm fuzzy/cold prickly) "I'd like to second the opinions of my compatriot below: >>>>> On 19 Dec 89 19:20:10 GMT, weilercw@clutx.clarkson.edu (C. "Puppy" Weiler,,2684087,) said: (excerpted for brevity) > I don't know if anyone has thought of it, but someone should write to > Spider and let him know about [the Place]... maybe he can come up with > a way to join... "*yesyesyes* Any sysop types out there?? > [worthwhile stuff deleted for brevity] Maybe the fact that I was more > physically fit than I had ever been (or have been since), or that I and a > bunch of other guys actually worked together in a group or team... "As someone who has never quite been 'one of the guys', but instead is now the only member of his Navy ROTC unit with only female roommates (Please deflect comments on foreign policy to alt.peeves...the Place is about *people*), I can second this...I've never been athletic, and I've always been a loner, but belonging to a group (be it fraternity/club/dorm floor/ whatever) can do wonders for your self-confidence...and you will discover that you present yourself more clearly to the persons in whom you are interested, without always needing a mask. I'm not saying that everyone will find an appropriate group within the next week, nor that everyone *needs* to...but anyone who is reading this has already found one group. > Some advice to those who are looking for soulmates: Look for friends, if > you find a friend, it may turn into something more, it may not. If you go > out looking for a soulmate, you're going to scare people away who may not > be. "I'm a graduating senior now, and to all the freshpersons out there who have survived a semester and are wondering just what college will bring, I will just say one simple thing: you can be as pessimistic as you want, but in the end, you must believe in yourself. If you need to talk something out, the Place is here. > > "Here's to the Dreamers and the Sensitives: > may they oneday triumph over and change this > G*dd*amn world pain." He picks up the whiskey, and tries to think of a toast to do justice to the aromatic bourbon. "Here's to the dreamers and the sensitives-- let us help each other and those who find refuge here..." He downs the whickey and tosses the shot glass underhand into the fireplace, where it breaks with a gentle tinkle. He turns to the schnapps and seems to contemplate a moment before picking it up. "Sweets to the sweet--to Beverly, wherever you are." He throws back the shot and hurls the glass into the fireplace hard enough that it seems to echo for a moment, then turns to Mike and asks for a pitcher of Bass from draught. As Mike fills the pitcher, he turns to the room and says, 'Oh yes, it's DECNet in the puzzle, not USENet...and I've no idea on the rest...but I'll see you next decade..." He picks up the pitcher and walks over to Fast Eddie, and says, "How about 'Angry Young Man'???" Fast Eddie says, 'No problem...' and the magic fingers start to fly... -- Rip Loomis -- BS (EE) '90 (a/k/a Corum Jhaelen Irsei, the Prince in the Scarlet Robe) Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!clotho!flynn From: flynn@clotho.acm.rpi.edu (Kevin Lincoln Flynn) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Hello and goodbye for a while (a new face at the bar) Message-ID: <_#?`}_@rpi.edu> Date: 21 Dec 89 06:50:49 GMT Reply-To: kgh@pawl.rpi.edu (Kevin Lincoln Flynn) Organization: The Voice of Fate Lines: 60 The door opens on a maelstrom of wind and snow from which a tall figure emerges, slamming the door behind him as he stamps the snow from his boots and throws back the hood of the long black cloak draped around him to reveal long red hair against a grey-silver lining. He looks about the room, enjoying the feel of the fire's heat, catching the eye of each person in turn, slowly letting the smile on his face mirror the smile in his mind, growing at each face he recognizes. He turns to one side, pulling a boken from inside the cloak and standing it on the floor by the door, then unclasps the cloak and hangs it up on the coat rack; underneath are leather boots, a black shirt and jeans. Slowly he makes his way up to the bar. "Mike? Whiskey sour, if you'd be so kind -- a big one, a mugful." The coins rattle on the bar as he lifts the mug to his lips and drinks, and once again he smiles as he makes his way to the center of the room, and a clear line on the fireplace. Again he looks around the room, taking his time to be certain of the details of his surroundings and the occupants thereof; then he clears his throat and speaks. "I've never been here before, as y'all regulars will know -- 'bout time I came, though, I rather like the looks of the place. And, of course, of the people I know here." Another pull at the drink. "Nice to finally be in the same room as you people, I can assure you." Another. "I wanted to stop in and offer the friends I have here - present and future - a toast before I leave for Christmas. Y'all mean a lot to me -- take care of yourselves, and I'll meet you (again?) sometime after now..." A long pull at his mug, and then he looks over his shoulder. "Mike? One on me for the house -- there's a toast to be made here." He sips at his mug till everyone's glass is full, then looks around the room as he quotes: "Don't be dismayed at goodbyes. A farewall is necessary before you can meet again, and meeting again, after moments or lifetimes, is certain for those who are friends. -- Richard Bach, in a book called _Illusions_." He takes another sip from his mug, and stands a bit straighter. "I am Kevin Lincoln Flynn, and I make you all a toast, my friends: To the meeting again, after the farewell." He tosses back his head and empties the mug. "SKAAL!" The mug flies in a long arc. <<>> Flynn steps to the bar again and settles the reckoning with Mike; then it's back over to the door. He swings the cloak around him, picks up the boken and slides it back into its hidden sheath, and pulls the hood forward over his face. Again the door opens on the howling maelstrom, and Flynn disappears into the swirling snow. But not without taking the time to give a unicorn a bow, shake hands with a couple of people, and give a winged tabby cat a hug. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ A note: I'm setting the reply-to on this article to a known working address. Hopefully soon I'll be able to use flynn@acm.rpi.edu like I should be. Kevin Lincoln Flynn flynn@acm.rpi.edu, userfwvl@mts.rpi.edu 147 1st Street H (518) 273-6914 W (518) 447-8561 Troy, NY 12180 ...Argue for your limitations, and sure enough they're yours. Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!CS.UOREGON.EDU!jdrew From: jdrew@CS.UOREGON.EDU Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Intro, looking for a bit of compassion Message-ID: <8912210850.AA03806@dogmatix.cs.uoregon.edu.cs.uoregon.edu> Date: 21 Dec 89 08:50:41 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 92 I thought I'd finally get around to giving a more full description of myself. As you are soon to discover, I am an even more faceted person that might have appeared in the past. I mean, form switching in here is no odd feat, but there's more to me than just that. Who am I? Well, usually I am Jim Drew. But sometimes I'm Jim Drew. Confused? Good. I am. Sometimes I am Colyn du Corynthe, sometimes a young woman named Kris, sometimes a man named Gregory out of 1942 London, sometimes I am a yuppie woman named Deborah. There's even a Furrie in here somewhere, a Lynx. Some might dub these as personas, but they are so much more than that. They are quite real to me, actual separate mind sets. A couple of them almost verge on being split personalities. Let's see if I can explain a little further... Jim Drew (mark I) is who I appear to be on the surface. 6'2" tall, 150 pounds, wavy brown hair pulled back in a pony tail. Computer Science grad student, working on Computer Graphics. Son of a minister, the slightly nerdy guy who couldn't do anything wrong. Jim Drew (mark II) is who I am most of the time in my mind's eye. You see, Jim (mark I) was the shortest person in his class until 10th grade. Now he is taller than all but about a half dozen of his former classmates. In my mind's eye, though, I stopped growing at about 5'8". Jim II's weight stayed constant with Jim I's; therefore, I am still a bit fat in my mind's eye. Jim II is the idealized image of what I would like to be. He is outspoken, a snappier dresser, a bit flamboyant, and has straight, blond hair (you know how it is -- everyone with curly hair wishes they had straight hair, and vice versa). Jim II is the creative side of me/us, which had been supressed until about three years ago, which is probably why I/we are so fractured. He is the writer, the artist, the one who does cast at Rocky Horror. I think he is the most interesting part of all of us. Colyn du Corynthe is unique among us. He is the only one to be formed by us, rather than as an effect of assorted forces. For that reason, he is hardly fully formed, and only comes out in spurts, and usually only with respect to SCA talk (for which he was, of course, created). I don't really have much of an idea what he looks like, probably because he is quite shy. Kris (last name unknown) is the result of all of the abuse that comes my way. Any that sticks to me/us gets sloughed off onto her. It has, therefore, decidedly colored her view of reality. Since all she gets is shit, that's about all she gives back. Kris has red hair in a butch (Tasha Yar) haircut. She is probably a dyke (in *every* sense of the word), but she won't say for sure. She has quite the foul mouth, and I only let her out in short bursts. She tends to show up in emotional instants, or when I am under a lot of stress. Best time to see her: when I post a flame. I try to keep her under a tight reign, but sometimes... Gregory Collingsworth is a well educated man of impeccable breeding. He is a lover of culture, and tends to push a little on the culture and education issues. He has strongly influenced the rest of us, as is sometimes evident in speech patterns -- in certain situations, he just grabs the vocal cords and out comes a *very* British accent. It is his fault that we all wear a scarf (even the Furrie). Deborah (last name unknown, but it's probably Johnson or Davidson or some such) thinks she is better than she really is. She is the one with the snooty attitude, the one who spends money, the one who drops names. She also sings, which is why I/we do. Unfortunately, her alto conflicts with Gregory's bass to give me a voice that shifts octaves from bass to tenor with ease, and gives me a beautiful falsetto at times, but only for a few seconds at a shot. The Furrie in me is a Lynx. I've long been fascinated by the lynx, and this is the natural extension of that, or maybe it's the other way around. The Lynx is great to be around, unless you get it pissed off. It is also very quiet, which explains why I am such a quiet person (really -- my SO's biggest complaint about me, and something I can't do anything much about. Please be aware that I'm not trying to show anybody up in here with "I've got more personas than you do!" It's just the way I am. In fact, this is the first time I've actually sat down and categorized them. Maybe it will help me work things out. Actually, there aren't any real problems that any of us have. We are slowly being integrated into the whole, as must happen once we become aware of ourselves, although I doubt (and hope) that we never will totally vanish. I will *never* let a psychiatrist get ahold of me! "Mike? Got a table for six plus a cat? Good. And we'll take a Henry's Light Ale, thanks. No, just one will do." I'll be here. Jim/Jim/Colyn/Kris/Greg/Deb/Lynx/etc. *********************** Jim Drew What does Christmas mean to you? jdrew@cs.uoregon.edu Cliff (Robotman) Steele: "Jumping every time I (SCA: Colyn du Corynthe) hear a doll saying, 'dada.'" - Dan T.'s Inferno, CBG Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!microsoft!t-phils From: t-phils@microsoft.UUCP (the Eternal Stranger) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Jilara, Montreal, and people with guns Message-ID: <10020@microsoft.UUCP> Date: 21 Dec 89 05:12:26 GMT References: <8912131742.AA04980@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM> Reply-To: t-phils@microsoft.UUCP (the Eternal Stranger) Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA Lines: 19 Jilara writes: | The Japanese have a term---satsujinken, "the sword that gives | life." That's my road. And every time I hear about stuff like | Montreal, it reminds me of why I am here, even if I may not enjoy it at | times. I am here that others may live. To bushido, and satsujinken." | She hurls her glass into the fire with more force than before. "I'll second that..." Alaric's (glass? goblet?) is no more than seconds behind. The terrible rage is gone from his eyes, finally; but to one who knows how to see, the pain of loss still shows there, scarcely less for having not known those that he lost. -- CHECK ALL BOXES THAT APPLY: [ ] Out-of-place Renaissance man [ ] Frustrated idealist with no utopia [ ] Romantic with no-one to romance [ ] Amateur superhero minus superpowers [ ] Sometime poet with no audience [ ] t-phils@microsoft.UUCP [ ] Gallant knight with no holy sword [ ] Software wizard seeking new tower [ ] Player at Life, with no rule book [ ] Empath with no-one to help [X] All of the above Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!microsoft!t-phils From: t-phils@microsoft.UUCP (the Eternal Stranger) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Rescuers and Real Men (was Re: The victims in Montreal) Message-ID: <10021@microsoft.UUCP> Date: 21 Dec 89 05:43:25 GMT References: <1989Dec18.192207.2520@athena.mit.edu> <1989Dec19.202113.13691@athena.mit.edu> Reply-To: t-phils@microsoft.UUCP (the Eternal Stranger) Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA Lines: 64 Ellen writes: | | Boy that sure clears things up. It's too bad we weren't able to | halt this misunderstanding immediately. My only problem with your | posting was that you universally quantified yourself over the males | as opposed to over the human beings. At the top of your long | rebuttal you mention that this was just a slip. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like this could be taken in several different ways, not all of them good... I very much doubt that you meant it any of the negative ways, though. However it may have sounded, I don't try to quantify myself as better than either the human race or males, and I'm sorry if it sounded that way. I was mainly frustrated because it seems so rare nowadays that anyone makes the effort and tries... It really takes a lot to get me angry - but once I get good and angry about something, I tend to stay at a slow boil for days. I let anger speak louder than reason, and I shouldn't have done that - but I was so angry at what happened that reason just couldn't get a word in for a while. (Jerrin the Seeker would have been very disappointed in me. For that matter, so would my old Goju Ryu instructor, sensei Teruo Chinen.) What frustrates me is that there is always something you can do - but there seem to be less and less people who are willing to give it a try. (Excuse me - let me correct that; there is _almost_ always something you can do.) For those of us whose instincts drive us to try, it gets very hard to carry the load on our own. We may have the drive - or the need - to be some kind of amateur superheroes, but no-one ever equipped us with the suits or the superpowers. I can think of a number of people just among the people I know, who would have had a better chance of preventing the tragedy than I would - but I know from past experience that I'd be driven to try anyway, and I'm not the only one. There's other people right here in Callahan's whose instincts drive them the same way. We all try our best - but there aren't enough of us to go around, and we can't do it all on our own... to quote Jilara, "Atlas would like to put the world down once in a while, but try finding someone to take a spell." (Not her exact words, but close enough.) We try - gods, we try! - but we're just not enough. Maybe the answer is that we all have to do our part to try and change the direction of society, to get back to - or forward to - a social mind-set where people DO get involved, and where people don't sit behind closed curtains for 40 minutes listening to Kitty Genovese's screams. I'm not sure where we start; if anyone has any suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them. I'd like to make a toast... to a time, and a society, in which no-one who is facing danger or death will ever have to wonder whether any of the other people around are going to help them, a society in which people don't pretend not to see or hear. [With feeling.] | Whew, that whole thing was pretty rough. Let me buy you that drink I | owe you. Thank you - I could really use one right now... -- CHECK ALL BOXES THAT APPLY: [ ] Out-of-place Renaissance man [ ] Frustrated idealist with no utopia [ ] Romantic with no-one to romance [ ] Amateur superhero minus superpowers [ ] Sometime poet with no audience [ ] t-phils@microsoft.UUCP [ ] Gallant knight with no holy sword [ ] Software wizard seeking new tower [ ] Player at Life, with no rule book [ ] Empath with no-one to help [X] All of the above Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!microsoft!t-phils From: t-phils@microsoft.UUCP (the Eternal Stranger) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Montreal Message-ID: <10022@microsoft.UUCP> Date: 21 Dec 89 05:54:41 GMT References: Reply-To: t-phils@microsoft.UUCP (the Eternal Stranger) Distribution: alt Organization: Microsoft Corp., Redmond WA Lines: 43 Gary Levin writes: | It wasn't a rifle, it was a semi-automatic. As a by-note, I had already assumed that, from the basis that he had at least fifteen shots counting the one for himself. | He didn't have to aim and | shoot, he sprayed. For which we may probably be grateful, because if he'd taken the time to aim, there probably wouldn't have been any survivors. (Though we shouldn't overlook the panic-factor of even rapid semi-automatic fire.) | The men were herded to one side; from the reports | that I heard, I don't know at what point it became clear who was going | to be shot. Not that it should have made any difference... | The time to stop the killer wasn't when he had the gun in his hands. | It was long before he left home that day. It was before he became so | embittered with women and life. If there were more people who would | listen and talk (preferably in that order) to people with troubles, | there might be fewer crimes of this sort. You are of course right. Prevention is always better than treatment, whatever the field... if it gets to the point at which you have to physically try to stop someone, you've already failed the most important part of the job. | Toast: | To more Callahan's, out in the real world, where they are needed. | Anyone's room can be the Place, if the right people are there. I'll second that... -- CHECK ALL BOXES THAT APPLY: [ ] Out-of-place Renaissance man [ ] Frustrated idealist with no utopia [ ] Romantic with no-one to romance [ ] Amateur superhero minus superpowers [ ] Sometime poet with no audience [ ] t-phils@microsoft.UUCP [ ] Gallant knight with no holy sword [ ] Software wizard seeking new tower [ ] Player at Life, with no rule book [ ] Empath with no-one to help [X] All of the above Path: mit-eddie!bu-cs!lll-winken!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!Teknowledge.COM!polya!lucid.com!lucidboston!kdo From: kdo@lucid.com (Ken Olum) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Panama Message-ID: <146@boston-harbor.lucid.com> Date: 21 Dec 89 15:51:20 GMT Organization: Lucid East, Sharon MA Lines: 24 "Something strong, please." I don't care what it is. I lay down a dollar, drain the glass and step to the line. "To the people of the United States and of Panama, soldier and civilian, killed yesterday in the invasion. To Americans, both North and Central, God help us all." Why? Why does it have to happen again? Once again the United States has used its military power to "liberate" another country, killing many civilians in the process. "Operation Just Cause" we called it. Explain it to the dead! Did Bush need to prove he wasn't a wimp? Did we feel that once we've accused Noriega of drug dealing that we had to bring him to trial to show that we're tough on drugs? Don't get me wrong, I'm no friend to Noriega -- he's a corrupt dictator. I'm just tired of seeing the U.S. going into foreign countries and killing people. I suppose I shouldn't talk politics on alt.callahans, and I apologize to anyone who supports this action. It just strikes me as pretty strange that most foreign countries are condemning us for this action and all the U.S. politicians are praising Bush for it. 'This is our cry; this is our prayer: Peace in the world.' Ken Newsgroups: alt.callahans Path: mit-eddie!bloom-beacon!athena.mit.edu!erspert From: erspert@athena.mit.edu (Ellen R. Spertus) Subject: Re: Needlessness (was Re: The Unbeliever's Tale) Message-ID: <1989Dec21.191007.22789@athena.mit.edu> Sender: news@athena.mit.edu (News system) Reply-To: erspert@athena.mit.edu (Ellen R. Spertus) Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology References: <5161.257f9900@elroy.uh.edu> <2700@unisoft.UUCP> <1989Dec13.201551.8648@athena.mit.edu> <4497@hplabsz.HPL.HP.COM> <5849@cps3xx.UUCP> Date: Thu, 21 Dec 89 19:10:07 GMT Lines: 80 In article <5849@cps3xx.UUCP> frey@frith.UUCP (Zachary T. Frey) writes: >In article <5161.257f9900@elroy.uh.edu> cosc5sh@elroy.uh.edu (Unbeliever) writes: >>I came up with a theory the other day -- all one needs to do to find a >>girlfriend is to arrange your life so that you're happy without one. >>Murphy's Law then handles the rest. Needlessly bitter, but that expresses my >>mood rather well right now. > >I also came up with this particular application of Murphy's Law this year >(it seems like a lot of people have independantly discovered it) and have >been giving the matter some thought. It seems to be a special case of >the relationship > > need ==> desperation ==> inability to fulfil need > >Now, in some cases this obviously doesn't hold. Thanks for your interesting posting. I am one of the people you cite as being in agreement with the law, so I'd like to respond. I don't think the vicious circle you mention is true of all things. Many people work best under pressure. Consider people who can only write a paper the night before it's due. >So why the *hell* does needing (or even wanting) friendship, affection, love, >spiritkin, or soulmate automatically make one 'desperate'? It doesn't. I think there's a pun on the world "desperate". Being desperate for a boy/girlfriend colloquially means that one would accept anyone. Of course anyone with self-respect will stay away from such a person. If desperation causes someone to hit on every MOTAS they meet, of course this is going to lessen their chances of success. No matter how attracted I was to someone who would accept just anyone, I would not be his girlfriend. [A note on language. 1) MOTAS = member of the appropriate sex (soc. convention). 2) I have decided to use "they" for a person of unknown sex. Apparently something like this was done in old English (Chaucer).] On the other hand, desparation can mean something else. Some of the crazy things love-sick people do succeed. Desparation can cause someone to override their habitual shyness and become outgoing. I got a crazy crush on a guy a year ago, and my behavior changed radically, and this was probably necessary to get through his skull that I *like*d him (it's true what they say about engineers). (I'm not talking about putting on an act to be friends with someone. I'm talking about letting one's emotions show.) He didn't show much interest in me, and if I had any sense I'd have stopped, but I was goofy. And I just got the shock of my life by receiving a sentimental Christmas card from him. In other words, my craziness may have worked. But the only way my desperate acts would have had any success is if he realized that it's only he that I'd act gaga over. >In article <1989Dec13.201551.8648@athena.mit.edu> erspert@athena.mit.edu (Ellen R. Spertus) writes: >>I don't think anything is wrong with the idea that you only get a >>girlfriend when you can be happy without one. Is she supposed to be a >>crutch? Relationships are ideally between two happy people who want >>to share life's adventures, not between insecure people who depend >>primarily on other people for happiness. This is another thing: Someone who feels they need a SO in order to be whole. That would sure scare me away. "When two people try to become one person, you get two half people." Of course I am happier having a boyfriend, but I don't expect him to be my life. >Or, "you have to not want it enough to get it." > >I'm sorry, my friends, but I do not accept this. I realize the truth in >"a watched pot never boils", and in what Grey Wolf, Ellen, and Rob have >said, but this cannot be the whole story. I cannot play this kind of >doublethink, and I suspect that many others cannot either. I don't think that's what I'm saying. I think this more thorough posting is a better approximation of "the whole story" than my first posting. And I don't think this involves any double-think. I am right now trying to get a boyfriend through the standard ways and by letting people know (discreetly) that I don't have one. (The thing with the crushee might fall through. Ask me in a month.) Ellen Path: mit-eddie!wuarchive!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!apple!ames!amelia!eos!woody From: woody@eos.UUCP (Wayne Wood) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Panama Message-ID: <5860@eos.UUCP> Date: 21 Dec 89 20:09:35 GMT References: <146@boston-harbor.lucid.com> Reply-To: woody@eos.UUCP (Wayne Wood) Organization: NASA Ames Research Center, Calif. Lines: 53 In article <146@boston-harbor.lucid.com> kdo@lucid.com (Ken Olum) writes: > >"Something strong, please." I don't care what it is. I lay down a >dollar, drain the glass and step to the line. > >"To the people of the United States and of Panama, soldier and >civilian, killed yesterday in the invasion. To Americans, both North >and Central, God help us all." > >Why? Why does it have to happen again? Once again the United States i believe there was a legitimate election nullified by Mr. Noriega earlier this year... if i may play devil's advocate for a moment... perhaps liberate is the correct term, but not the way you've used it. >has used its military power to "liberate" another country, killing >many civilians in the process. "Operation Just Cause" we called it. >Explain it to the dead! Did Bush need to prove he wasn't a wimp? Did explain it to a dead marine, explain it to another officer beaten and his wife repeatedly threatened with sexual abuse, explain it to the political candidates beaten and threatened, explain it to the families of the dead bodyguards. >we feel that once we've accused Noriega of drug dealing that we had to >bring him to trial to show that we're tough on drugs? Don't get me very simplistic view... >wrong, I'm no friend to Noriega -- he's a corrupt dictator. I'm just >tired of seeing the U.S. going into foreign countries and killing so am i, but at some point we must. >people. I suppose I shouldn't talk politics on alt.callahans, and I >apologize to anyone who supports this action. It just strikes me as >pretty strange that most foreign countries are condemning us for this >action and all the U.S. politicians are praising Bush for it. > let's continue this in email please... things are going rather well at callahans without you and i discussing politics... >'This is our cry; this is our prayer: Peace in the world.' > > Ken i'll driink to that... teguila, line, ... /*** woody **************************************************************** *** ...tongue tied and twisted, just an earth bound misfit, I... *** *** -- David Gilmour, Pink Floyd *** ****** woody@eos.arc.nasa.gov *** my opinions, like my mind, are my own ******/