Path: mit-eddie!mit-amt!snorkelwacker!apple!usc!ucsd!ucbvax!ULKYVX.BITNET!cfcohe01 From: cfcohe01@ULKYVX.BITNET (Rose Delckum) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: I Can't Believe I Lost It.... Message-ID: <8cfcohe01@ULKYVX.bitnet> Date: 11 Jan 90 21:43:00 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Organization: University of Louisville Lines: 44 It is currently 9:30 AM, as the door to Callahan's slowly opens a crack. Mike pauses in washing glasses to look and see whose there. The door opens wider, slowly, emitting a low creek, and a pair of coke bottle glasses and wisps of long light brown hair can be seen. The door opens wider, this time emitting a sharp report as the person behind it frantically tries to shush it so as to make a quiet entrance... "Oh all right! I give up you stupid door! Mike, I'll have another ginger beer for myself and a nice bottle of oil for the door's hinges. Thanks." Rose walks quickly to a stool and drains her glass. Then, standing, she quickly shouts "To being lost!" and throws the glass which smashes quite satisfactorily. (is that a word?) "Okay everyone, I'm sure you think this is something deep and metaphysical, about being lost spiritually, or somesuch. Well, it's not. I'm actually, physically lost. Actually, _I'm_ not lost, my Japanese class is. That's where I'm supposed to be right now. And I can't believe I lost it. How can you lose a class? And I don't mean I got lost on campus. Nope. I went to the classroom my class was in, but my class wasn't there. _A_ class was there, but it wasn't mine. There's like 8-10 of us who made it to Japanese 4, and none of the others was in there. Anyhow, I searched the whole building, and my class just disappeared (Oz maybe? Nick, have you seen any confused looking people wandering around lately?). So, I came here. Where else would people believe I wasn't cutting class, but had lost it? Anyhow, I guess I should resume my search--I was just taking a breather. Half the campus now thinks I'm loony tunes from all my wandering around (egads! I bet I look like a freshman! Yow!) I guess next time class time rolls around I'll just have to stake out the building till I see a familiar face and tail them in. What a mess. Typical though." She gets up slowly, rubbing her eyes. "Oh, and Mike, could I have something with a major caffeine content to go? I'm back on my 4-hour per night sleep schedule. And if anyone comes in here and asks for sake, hold 'em till I get back--might be a classmate!" "Bye y'all!" -------- Rose ----------- "The meek Tyrannosaurus, victim of an innocent misunderstanding, tears like heck across the prehistoric valley..." --Calvin & Hobbes --------- ------------- Path: mit-eddie!mit-amt!snorkelwacker!apple!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!caesar.cs.montana.edu!milton!uw-beaver!Teknowledge.COM!polya!lucid.com!lucidboston!kdo From: kdo@lucid.com (Ken Olum) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Money (was: Life in Cosmo) Summary: The LOVE of money is the root of evil Message-ID: <153@boston-harbor.lucid.com> Date: 11 Jan 90 21:36:53 GMT References: <9001031734.AA13867@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM> <2742@unisoft.UUCP> Reply-To: kdo@lucid.com Organization: Lucid East, Sharon MA Lines: 61 >In article <9001031734.AA13867@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM> jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM (Jane Beckman x2637) writes: >"It's the whole mentality. Everything nowadays is oriented toward >commodities, and the message of the whole culture is that Things matter. >People are just window-dressing. Another commodity to buy and sell. Jilara and Greywolf, I agree with both of you about how awful this is. I think it's all part of maskedness and not being willing to be caught valuing what really matters. But that isn't what I was actually going to talk about here.... In article <2742@unisoft.UUCP> greywolf@unisoft.UUCP (The Grey Wolf) writes: > The materially wealthy *almost* never know true love . . . I appear in the doorway of Callahan's, dressed in an old, tattered cloak with my elbows poking through it, and a cloth sack on a stick slung over my back. But if you look closely you can see that the cloak was woven from dollar bills, and through the rips in the sack you can see a strange metallic glint. I take a tarnished silver dollar from my pocket and put it on the bar. "A glass of plain soda water please. I hate perrier." I disagree about wealth, or perhaps I'm just the exception. I think I've had a fair share of good and back luck in love, and having money has never gotten in my way. I worry about it, though, because of people who believe in all the bad things about the wealthy, and because it seems to act as a barrier. I don't think having money makes me a different person than I would be if I were poor. I think what's important is that I've never sought money, and I've never put it above things that really matter. When I choose a career I chose what was interesting to me, and by surprise I got paid well for it. Then recently several of my close relatives have died and I've inherited money from them. I don't care about the money -- I'd rather have my family all still living! I still worry sometimes, though. People have such stereotypes about the wealthy, and I don't want to be caught up in them. I don't want to have people feel uncomfortable around me and not know how to act. I just want to be treated like anybody else. So I try to act poorer sometimes and don't talk about money very much. But this is Callahan's Place, and no place for secrets, so I'll tell you that I've got a somewhat over a million dollars. But let's agree that we'll just forget all about it now and treat each other as human beings now. It's not the money that matters, but the broken value system that sometimes goes with it. It's overvaluing money and undervaluing people that stands in the way of love or happiness. It's taking the job that pays the millions instead of the one that you love that would support you without a lot extra. It's leaving all your friends to get a higher-status job in another town. It's using people as a means to an end. It's confusing your life with your career. It's being afraid to stand up for yourself and lose something material. It's getting money and leaving your friends behind because you don't want to associate with that kind of people any more. There's nothing wrong with money, as long as you don't get all confused by it.... "To things that really matter!" Ken Path: mit-eddie!bloom-beacon!shelby!polya!lucid.com!lucidboston!kdo From: kdo@lucid.com (Ken Olum) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Parents (was: A possible explanation) Message-ID: <154@boston-harbor.lucid.com> Date: 11 Jan 90 22:11:21 GMT Reply-To: kdo@lucid.com Organization: Lucid East, Sharon MA Lines: 33 In article jt1o+@andrew.cmu.edu (Joseph L. Traub) writes: >It seemed that she had broken up with me because her parents had >found out she was seeing me, and I was not Hindu. She had wanted to >remain friends, but found that hard, and irratating, because she >REALLY wanted to be more than friends, but also was unwilling to >disobey her parents (we were both 16 at the time we dated)... I hate parents like this! I think one of the most important things that parents must do in raising children is to teach them to think for themselves and do what they think is right. Parents should be a source of wisdom to their children, and children should listen to the advice of their parents, but if that advice is full of sh*t then they should throw it out. Personally I got along well with my parents, but I've heard many horror stories like yours. It's very hard, especially when you are 16, but you have to find the self-confidence to stand on your own. Sometimes this means telling them that you aren't going to do as they have said, and sometimes it means lying. (I hate lying, but if people are sufficiently unreasonable I think they forfeit any right to be dealt with truthfully.) Of course, even in a situation like this when she's decided to obey her parents there's no reason to lie to you about it. She ought to just admit that they were being unreasonable and that she decided to obey for whatever reason she made that decision. Perhaps she was afraid you'd convince her to change her mind or something, but I think when you make a decision like that you ought to stand up for it, and if you can't stand up for it you ought not to make it. On the other hand I suppose I'm an unreasable idealist.... Ken Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!shelby!csli!cphoenix From: cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU (Chris Phoenix) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Answers, and more doubt... Message-ID: <11698@csli.Stanford.EDU> Date: 12 Jan 90 01:46:58 GMT Sender: cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU (Chris Phoenix) Reply-To: cphoenix@csli.stanford.edu (Chris Phoenix) Organization: Center for the Study of Language and Information, Stanford U. Lines: 58 I talked to Ina today, and found out some rather disturbing things... At this point we both think we're just incompatible. A quote from Steve: "There are always rules. They may just not be the ones you're used to." (You may wonder why I'm referring to Steve so much. It's because he's the one person I know who seems to have figured out the system that people use around here, and because we've had extensive talks about social interactions.) The reason I say we're incompatible is that she takes offense at a lot of behavior that I consider normal and often do. Things like asking people's grades--I don't do it that often, but I don't see anything offensive about it. If she's talking with someone who she doesn't know, and they say "Have a nice day" as a closing, that's really offensive to her because they don't care about her but are pretending to. BTW, everyone I've asked says that there's nothing wrong with asking people's grades... and all of her friends say that it is offensive and rude. BTW, we also disagree on whether she is working from a semi-arbitrary rule system, or if her feelings about this just stem from consideration and respect for other people. At this point my curiosity circuits take over, and I want to find out more about people like this. Is there anyone out there who shares Ina's point of view, and is willing to try to explain where they're coming from? I won't ask for justification, or try to take out any hard feelings on you-- I just want to understand it. In my admittedly naive opinion, this by itself would be enough to sour the relationship. But Ina says there was more to it, and this is where the scary part comes in. She maintains that I have been looking at her as an object, and not respecting her as a person. Given that (from her point of view) I was being rude to her and invading her space many times a day, I can understand why she felt that way. But she says it's more than even that... After we'd been going out for a couple of weeks, we met her brother for a few minutes, and he told her to break it off because she was already being hurt. After we broke up, but before we stopped being friends, another friend of hers saw us together for a few minutes, and without knowing anything about me, or even that we had been going out, asked Ina if we had been and told her that I was looking at her (Ina) as an object, and that she shouldn't get involved with me. I'm not sure why I'm saying all this. I can't imagine how you could help unless you actually knew me, not just my typing. But if you have any thoughts on anything I've said, I'd really like to hear them. Even if they aren't very complimentary to me... if I have a problem, I want to know about it! BTW, I've seen several people post songs here that I assume are copyrighted by others. I *don't* want to start a discussion in the newsgroup, but if anyone knows about news policy and copyright law, could you mail me? I want to post a song too, and don't know if I should. If people want me to, I'll also post a summary of whatever we decide. I don't want to squelch anyone, but I'd think potential song-posters would want to know if there might be legal trouble...-- Chris Phoenix | A harp is a nude piano. cphoenix@csli.Stanford.EDU | "More input! More input!" ...And I only kiss your shadow, I cannot see your hand, you're a stranger now unto me, lost in the dangling conversation, and the superficial sighs... Path: mit-eddie!mit-amt!snorkelwacker!apple!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!ucsd!ucbvax!mtxinu!unisoft!greywolf From: greywolf@unisoft.UUCP (The Grey Wolf) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Life in cosmo Message-ID: <2746@unisoft.UUCP> Date: 11 Jan 90 23:23:38 GMT References: Reply-To: greywolf@unisoft.UUCP (The Grey Wolf) Lines: 114 In article haste+@andrew.cmu.edu (Dani Zweig) writes: >greywolf@unisoft.UUCP (The Grey Wolf): > >> The materially wealthy *almost* never know true love; >> the materially poor seem to be wealthier in almost every single way, be- >> cause they find their wealth in knowledge, emotion, sharing and in every >> single little thing that comes along, because they don't have much else >> that they can do. >> And since the majority of the materially wealthy never know true love >> (because they are emotionally stunted in a *lot* of ways because they are >> so often sheltered from the so-called 'scum' of the world), they play a >> dog-in-the-manger role, saying, Well, if I can't have it, then neither > >Don't glorify poverty. (Where's my copy of "Major Barbara" when I need it?) >It stinks. No, not at all. Not to glorify *real* poverty. I agree with you: Poverty Sucks. But most people who are at the *upper extreme* are materialistic, elitist, snobbish Sons Of Bitches (NOTE, please, that I said "most"), and they are, in many ways, worse off than those who live on the economic median strip. > *Real* poverty means hunger and want, and that isn't a good >foundation for "true love". Or for other kinds of emotional wealth: As the >saying goes, last guys don't finish nice. As for the milder version of >poverty which is all too prevalent in this country, I haven't observed that >people living below the poverty line are happier than those living above it. >On the contrary, that kind of poverty means lack of choice, lack of prospects, >often lack of hope. NEVER give up hope. Idealistic, but true, at least to my point of view. It's unlikely that I will be able to afford a house of my own in which to raise a family, which is something I want to do. But that doesn't stop me from hoping, dreaming and putting energy into making it happen. > >>"But I ramble... I still bemoan the fact that things are cheaper to re- >> place than to repair (unless you do it yourself...hmm, that could become >> any self-respecting person's new pastime *real* fast if one gave it any >> thought), and I am as resentful of it as anyone else here. I wish it >> were the other way around. > >Money is how we measure economic value. Sometimes the measurement is >distorted (for example, when we legislate that clean air and clean water >should be treated as "free" goods) but by and large it reflects realities. >Back when repairing, rather than replacing, was a central part of the virtue >of thrift, replacement was also more expensive. > >Take my $5 watch, for example. ($8 with the battery.) My last one shorted >out. I *could* have had it repaired. It would have cost me $20-$30 to pay >the fair wage of a skilled technician. I naturally enough chose to toss it, >and pay $5 for a new one. Because an hour of someone's time really *is* a >lot more valuable than $5 worth of metal and sand and packaging. I'll grant you that. A five-dollar watch isn't worth repairing. Obviously, I forgot to write down the entire path of my mind at the time. An item which is worth more at a base level than the cost of repair is worth repairing (which, again, is obvious). > >Glorifying poverty and the "old" virtues, and vilifying wealth is periodically >fashionable, but if you think about it, it's *extremely* patronizing. Pardon me, but I hadn't meant to GLORIFY POVERTY. I just wanted to point out that those who exist solely on a materialistic basis are less likely to be truly happy (in my eyes -- this is my opinion). > Because >the poor *seek* wealth. So you're forced to take the stance that they don't >know better. That, for example, third worlders who are anxious to abandon >their old culture for one that promises an end to starvation and infant >mortality don't understand what they're losing. They understand. > >I know, you're talking about less extreme cases, aren't you? But the fact >still remains that lack of "material wealth" looks a lot less pleasant to >those who suffer from it than it does from the outside. Believe you me, I've been in both places. I've never *been* filthy rich, but I've met people who are, and most of them have been rather rude to me. I've been unemployed faced with the prospect of living on the streets. It was not a pleasant situation, and I hope I'm never faced with it again. > >Sigh. I had wrote this twice. The first time I scripted it out in the >third person, with any number of cuticisms mixed in. But on reconsideration, >I decided that I wanted to address what was said directly: The stereotyping >seemed just as bald as any you might find in Cosmopolitan. And just as >unhealthy. > Again, sorry for the projected misconception. It was a stereotype, true, but it was based on experience and the people I've met, not on hearsay. I don't immediately classify someone until I get to know them -- at least I *try* not to. >--Dani > >Naive are you/If you believe >Life favors those/Who aren't naive. > --Piet Hein (grooks) If there are further objections to what I have said, send me email. I'm not likely to read this group for a while... "Too many hands on my time Too many feelings Too many things on my mind." That about says it. -- "You guys are NUTS! En-Vee-Tee-Ess, NUTS!" -- History of the World, part I. Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!lavaca.uh.edu!elroy!cosc5sh From: cosc5sh@elroy.uh.edu (Unbeliever) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Various Ramblings, and a Question Message-ID: <5333.25ad4cd5@elroy.uh.edu> Date: 12 Jan 90 09:19:48 GMT Organization: The Land Lines: 123 Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever and White Gold Wielder, rises and approaches the bar. His appearance is the same as always. He's dressed in a tattered tan t-shirt and gray pants. His dirty blonde hair is disarrayed, and although he looks like he should have a wild beard to match, he is clean-shaven. His arms aren't muscular, yet they look rather strong. His right hand is missing its fourth and fifth fingers, and circling his third finger is a ring that is neither silver nor gold, but both. It is White Gold, keystone to the Arch of Time... There is wild magic graven in every rock, contained for white gold to unleash or control... This power is a paradox, because Power does not exist without Law, and wild magic has no Law; and white gold is a paradox, because it speaks for the bone of life, but has no part of the Land. And he who wields white magic gold is a paradox -- for he is everything and nothing, hero and fool, potent, helpless -- and with one word of truth or treachery he will save or damn the Earth because he is mad and sane, cold and passionate, lost and found. -- The Lords' Salute, as given in _Lord_Foul's_Bane_ , written by Stephen R. Donaldson The Unbeliever catches Mike's attention. "Mike, an eggnog, extra large." *gasp* "What do you MEAN, it's out of season?" *GROAN* "Mike, this will not do. Just because the REST of the world stops making eggnog on New Year's Eve, that does NOT excuse you from..." "Well, ok, Mike, you're forgiven THIS time, but don't let it happen again!" Mike hands Unbeliever a small cup. Unbeliever looks inside, and remarks, "Metheglin. I wouldn't have believed..." He raises the cup towards the rest of the room and begins to speak. "I'm going to be organized today, and ramble by category:" Age: "Well. It's happened. They went and made me 22 today. I tried to stop it from happening. I ranted. I raved. I screamed. I kicked. But time kept passing, and 40 minutes ago, by my watch, I became OLD." *SIGH* School: "School starts Monday for me. On the positive side, this means I won't be reading Callahan's at 1200 baud anymore (as I have over the Christmas break). On the negative side, it's back to the same old grind. Except this time it WON'T be the same, because instead of desperately fighting for hours as I have before, this time I just need a few specific, easy courses, before I'll be ready to transfer to UH Clear Lake and get RID of my rotten GPA..." Books: "I have spent the ENTIRE BREAK searching frantically for the Callahan books by Spider Robinson. In all of Houston, only two or three bookstores had even HEARD of Spider Robinson, and of those, only one normally carries the Callahan books. Of course, it was out of most of them (though I DID manage to snag a copy of "Callahan's Lady"). Any suggestions about whether I should read it before or after I obtain and read the other books of the series?" The Unbeliever raises his glass in toast: "To Fuzzies, Furries, Friends, and Futures! To 22, too!" (Do I get shot for that?) :) *CRASH* "I shall leave you, my friends, with a question, first asked of me by an old begger prior to my first journey to The Land. It is the Fundamental Question of Ethics, and it is rather long. Please post or mail me your answer to the question, and the reasoning behind your answer. I'm interested in the opinions of my fellow empaths here at Callahan's. Thank you. I warn you though -- I find that it is not as simple as it might first seem..." The Fundamental Question Of Ethics: A real man -- real in all the ways that we recognize as real -- finds himself suddenly abstracted from the world and deposited in a physical situation which could not possibly exist: sounds have aroma, smells have color and depth, sights have texture, touches have pitch and timbre. There he is informed by a disembodies voice that he has been brought to that place as a champion for his world. He must fight to the death in single combat against a champion from another world. If he is defeated, he will die, and his world -- the real world -- will be destroyed because it lacks the inner strength to survive. The man refuses to believe that what he is told is true. He asserts that he is either dreaming or hallucinating, and refuses to be put in the false position of fighting to the death where no "real" danger exists. He is implacable in his determination to disbelieve his apparant situation, and does not defend himself when he is attacked by the champion of the other world. QUESTION: Is the man's behavior courageous or cowardly? This is the fundamental question of ethics. -- also taken from _Lord_Foul's_Bane_ , written by Stephen R. Donaldson BBB EEEE TTTTT RRR U U EEEE B B E T R R U U E BBB EEE T RRR U U EEE B B E T R R U U E BBB EEEE T R R UU EEEE +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |InterNet: cosc5sh@elroy.uh.edu UUCP:...texbell!uhnix1!elroy.uh.edu!cosc5sh | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!yale!cs.utexas.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!texbell!texsun!convex!schumach@convex.com From: schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Life; and Masks Message-ID: <4523@convex.UUCP> Date: 12 Jan 90 00:55:26 GMT References: <1990Jan9.073457.12286@agate.berkeley.edu> <20940025@hplred.HP.COM> Sender: usenet@convex.UUCP Lines: 2 Or worse: it's coniferous, it might eat you! Path: mit-eddie!bloom-beacon!bu.edu!bu-cs!bu-pub!spacey From: spacey@bu-pub.bu.edu (Eva Chan) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Back for more Message-ID: Date: 13 Jan 90 01:16:53 GMT Sender: news@bu.edu.bu.edu Distribution: alt Organization: Boston University Computer Science Lines: 63 Eva (also known to some as Bunny) looks over at some of the people who had just recently spoken, aobut love, life, and school. She begins to ponder her own experiences. Maybe even consider herself lucky in some aspects, maybe even a bit selfish in some ways. Sometimes it is hard to not forget others. Then again, it's not always good to forget yourself either. At times it is almost like a tug of war between what is best for you and what is best for others. Should I give that homeless man my last dollar or save it and get a loaf of bread instead? "Sometimes I look around me and think 'Hm, I have a roof over my head and a family that cares, should I even be complaining about anything at all?' I may be broke for the week, but I do have a roof and family and food. SOmetimes I think many of us take some things for granted." "But then again, if we concern ourselves too much with others, then we may inadvertently neglect our own well-being, be it our own health or school/job. But that is how things are I guess. So many if's and not too many clear solutions to them." "Mike, a glass of spring water please. I'm sort of on a diet right now." She places the dollar on the bar and walks back to her seat. "Sometimes I wish I can drown some of the things that bother me out, but that is very difficult to do. Problems can not be solved by hiding from them, but then again it is scary to face them too. We all wish there was an easy way out, but often times there arent any. If life were meant to be all peaches and cream, then it would be a rather boring world wouldn't it? But I guess that is what makes life so interesting too." "Chris, I wish I knew what advise or story to tell you. As for me, I am in a racially mixed relationship. He is a WASP (I hope I dont offend anyone with the term, but he uses it himself) and I am Chinese. For almost the first year that we had been together I kind of kept him a secret from my parents. But eventually my parents found out. They weren't too enthusiastic about the idea of me having a Caucasian boyfriend, but what can they do? And after a while, they actually kind of like him. He's been over for dinner a few times too. Now it's been almost three years since we started seeing each other, and things just seem to get better, although I dont see him as much right now as I would like to. So Chris, for all what I have said is worth, hang in there and dont assert too much pressure. I know this isnt much as far as advice goes, but that's what I think." "Tommi, as for you, give it time. It's alright to try and at least be friends with her. Who knows, she may decide to drop her boyfriend and focus on you. But try not to place your hopes up too high else if it falls it may hurt quite a bit. Tommi, you are a very nice person and I believe that you should get the best. Everyone is special in his/her own way and dont anyone forget it." She finishes her glass of water, gets up and heads over to the line. "I know this must have been toasted a few times, but one more shouldn't hurt." "To love, life, and friends!" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>C R A S H !<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< -- Eva Chan spacey@bu-pub.bu.edu (e-mail is always appreciated) Cheers! And may you enjoy life! Path: mit-eddie!bloom-beacon!shelby!apple!usc!samsung!uunet!mcsun!sunic!bmc!kuling!jonasf From: jonasf@kuling.UUCP (Jonas Flygare) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Broken pieces all over.. Message-ID: <1332@kuling.UUCP> Date: 13 Jan 90 02:03:58 GMT Organization: Dep. of Computer Systems, Upsala University, Sweden Lines: 29 No, no! It's not as bad as it sounds.. It's just that I need to get some of my anger away, before it turns into yet another razor-sharp edge on my faceted personality.. I have been reading (and replying) to some messages in misc.headlines.. Some of the views people hold there are so one-eyed, so alien to the concepts of respect and humanity it makes me angry. I will never cease to provide arguments against that outlook on the world we live in. It is more important to them that their country does the 'right thing' than saving human lives. They refuse to accept that there even exist people with another attitude to life. Very rigid, very loud, and very vulnerable. If I can make even _one_ of them start reason with himself about the validity of the opinions posted, (even mine, as I believe all incoming facts should be scrutinized (sp?) to see if they may be angled, or twisted to concieve another message than it originally was.) then it will be worth it. But in the meantime I need to blow off steam.. Mike, here's one dollar.. Give me something appropriate.. A large glass mug, with two handles, and a ominous-looking mushroom cloud slowly rising slides down the bar.. (Original idea: Starstruck, by Kaluta) As Flax grabs the handles Ditto runs for cover. The gush of breath being exhaled after drinking the whole shebang is _very_ spicy, and with wisps of smoke coming out his ears, he says "To tolerance and knowledge!" before hurling the ceramic container into the fireplace.. >WH-BAMF!< -- jonasf@kuling.docs.uu.se : "Doedth eddydthig dthrike you adth dthrayge Jonas (flax) Flygare : aboud dthidth houdth?" -- Dirk Gently Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!agate!shelby!lindy!news From: GE.LJB@forsythe.stanford.edu (Louis J Bookbinder) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: ethical conundrum Message-ID: <7164@lindy.Stanford.EDU> Date: 13 Jan 90 02:15:57 GMT Sender: news@lindy.Stanford.EDU (News Service) Lines: 31 Nick clanks back into the bar. "A Mink Oil, Nick" Clunk To the line. Glug. "To stupid ethical discussions and the dorks who get into them" Clank. Flare. Small mushroom cloud. "Cut that out, Nick! You wanna set off the smoke alarm?!" "OK, the answer to the poor sap who refuses to defend himself is that he is neither a hero nor a coward. He is insane. Any sane person would at least ATTEMPT to defend himself from hurt no matter what the stakes. Even if there is no hope that he (or she, for that matter) can succeed. "As for the lost class, sorry, everyone in Oz understands everyone else. If there are language students in Oz, they are going to be EXTREMELY frustrated. "Sorry, no joy." Clank, clank out the door. Booky - You Bet! (What? me? opinions? Bo) GE.LJB@Forsythe.stanford.edu