Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!yale!cs.utexas.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!PICA.ARMY.MIL!skitchen From: skitchen@PICA.ARMY.MIL ("D. Scott Kitchen", CCH-V) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Will be in Boston for a week; anyone for a get-together? Message-ID: <9001161022.aa18688@CC1.PICA.ARMY.MIL> Date: 16 Jan 90 15:22:59 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 17 Greetings, all. This won't be in the standard form, as this is somewhat of an announcement. I'm going to be in the Boston metro area from at least 4 February until at least 10 February. Would the Boston Callahan's types like to get together for real during that time period. I'll have a hotel room at the Marriott in Andover (yes, I know it's 20-30 miles away, but that's where my class is), and I should be able to provide some transportation. All interested parties should respond to me directly at skitchen@cc1.pica.army.mil so we can try to coordinate something if at all possible. We now return you to your regularly scheduled toasts, puns, and tall tales. That is all... ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Scott Kitchen Send mail to: skitchen@cc1.pica.army.mil Mechanical Engineer ICBM: 40.88 N 74.56 W ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Brother, life's a bitch. She's back in heat. -- from "They Live" Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!usc!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hplred!egly From: egly@hplred.HP.COM (Diana Egly) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Hey, hi, ho, again here we go! Message-ID: <20940027@hplred.HP.COM> Date: 15 Jan 90 20:26:24 GMT References: Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA Lines: 63 A voice replies from under a pile of coats... As I speak, I disentangle myself from the nest where I've obviously been napping... Ah.... The healing powers of sleep are not to be disregarded... Taldin, I'm glad that you've talked about your way of looking at and considering suicidal feelings. We need to be reminded that different ways work for different people -- to be able to respond more fully to human diversity. Perhaps we also should talk about our different experiences of depression -- because different people do experience differently. I'm glad that logic has worked for some people here at Callahans in overcoming their suicidal feelings. I'm glad that doing the illogical -- setting suicide as a goal to be considered -- works for you. It sounds like for you the crux of the matter is in the question "does the good that I can do outweigh my feelings of worthlessness?" Now, I rarely have feelings of worthlessness when I'm depressed. I can't recall (nor find in my journals) an instance of having a lack of self-esteem as a factor in my considerations of suicide. So for me, your question boils down to "Does the good I am able to do -- am likely to do if I continue living -- outweigh or compensate for the pain and anguish that I am currently feeling?" Usually the answer to that is yes -- the good that I beleive that I can do is more significant than my personal pain. But, for me, when my depression deepens and the anguish becomes more intense, this ceases to be a useful way of looking at the situation. Because I've learned that the pain can become bad enough that I will do almost anything to make it stop -- including suicide. When that happens, a better question to look at is whether the anguish is related to whatever my current set of problems are or whether it's not. To what degree the anguish I feel results from being depressed. This is not a question that we normally ask. Normally we think of depression as being a response to our problems and we are encouraged to do this. We look for a cause for our depression. But life is never so simple as we would make it. Depression can and does happen when there is no discernable environmental cause for it. Or so it has been for me. The pity of it all is that when I am depressed, when I am feeling this kind of anguish, I look for environmental causes. In so doing, I forget to ask myself just how much contribution the environmental causes are making to the depression. I forget to compare and contrast my current depression with previous experiences of depression and with other forms of depression. I forget that looking at the depression itself may be the most important thing I can do -- that the suicidal feelings, the pain and anguish, the current set of problems and difficulties, the memories of past pain and distress, can be mere distractions, symptoms rather than causes. And I forget that they will subside -- will mysteriously vanish into thin air -- once the depression is under control (in those cases where the depression is not situational.) When I forget these things, it often helps to be reminded. Now this is likely a different experience of depression that many of you have had. That's part of the marvel of being human -- so many differences, so many ways of being. May we learn to be gentle with each other and with ourselves. Diana egly@hplabs.hp.com Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!runwolf From: runwolf@pawl.rpi.edu (Jennifer A. Butler) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Another Wylf Enters the Fold (Newcomer) Message-ID: Date: 16 Jan 90 20:50:04 GMT References: <20940027@hplred.HP.COM> Organization: Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Troy NY Lines: 76 Taldin looks up from his seat near the fire, as if he hears something noone else can. "Ah, it's about time you got here, my friend.." He stands and walks over to the door, which opens before him. A howling wind comes in, along with a howl that isn't that of the wind, but of a Wolf.. He sticks his head out the door and grins. Turning to all assembled, he says, "This is one of the people I care quite a lot about in this world, my spiritkin and Oath Friend. I told her about this place, and I'm helping her post to news for the first time. I'd say bear with her, but she's not a bear-- and she doesn't drink beer, either. But I'll buy'er the first drink.. (***Homynym puns, anyone?***)" A red wolf's head peaks in. She turns her head to survey the room. A bit nervous is she. Seeing the form of her Oath Friend helps things out alot - a friendly face in the midst of a crowd calms her. Her blue eyes are clear, the firelight reflecting in them. She pads in quietly, walking up to Taldin's side. She and the unicorn wandered over to the bar. "Mike, if you would please get a glass of grape-lemonade for my friend?" Taldin requested, laying a dollar bill down on the worn wood of the bartop. "Thank you, Tal." The wolf replied as she took the glass into her front paws. She drank it down, following the unicorn as he went back to his seat by the fire. She sat at his feet, being more comfortable on the floor. She nursed the drink, seemingly lost in her own thoughts. Soon she looked up. "Guess what, guess what?" She said quite perky to Taldin. "Taldin looked over to her, smiled, and said, "What?" She looked down and said, "I got a letter from my Dragon-mate today. He says he misses me. He says he loves me. He said he might be able to visit me in a week or two. I really miss him. Being 3 1/2 hours away can be hard. The Lair is so lonely without him. Luckily, we both feel strongly about the relationship and we want it to keep working out. Some one was saying that alot of people had fights with their mates over break. I was pained to hear that. A friend even broke up with his girlfriend. At least he is feeling better about it. "*Sigh* He lives so far away though. When he comes to visit all of us, I get so jealous (OK, so maybe not as much as I used to) when he goes running off to be with everyone else. I am so afriad he will totally forget about me when he sees all his other friends. Tal, what am I going to do? I can't keep him locked up in my Lair just so I can keep an eye on him. That is unfair. He needs his freedom. He has already complained about the freedom he lost since we exchanged "collars" (going out). "Oh Tal, being an N-gin-ear can be so had sometimes. I have some evil classes this term - mostly because I am retaking them. *Sigh* I seem to be forgetting alot more stuff lately. It's a pain. I don't dare open my mouth (usually until it is too late) because I always seem to put my foot in my mouth. I like the fact that I am a wolf - I can hide easier. No one wants to get close to wolfs, so I am always on my own. It was such I surprise to me this summer when it dawned on me how great my soulmate/Dragon-mate is. I am so happy I started hunting him. My life has never been better. I had never heard of the term soulmate used as it is here. To wolves, it means your mate, your husband/wife. We use it that way because when we mate, it is for life, so you join souls. It felt right - me asking him if he would go out with me. I was not surprised when he finally agreed. I knew he would, it would just take time. Now I have him, and I will not let him go. He is mine, hopefully for a good long time. He said I could keep him, at least for this lifetime. ;) I just wish we were together, even in the same state. Oh well, I have alot of patience. If it is true that I do have him forever (or close to it), what is another few weeks. "So a toast. To soulmates, my Dragon-mate, and all long distance relationships. And to Taldin, for his help." Running Wolf stood, finished the last of her drink and threw the glass as hard as she could into the fire. Taldin saw the tear in her eye as it reflected the fire light. ==================================================================================== Running Wolf (Jennifer Butler) runwolf@pawl.rpi.edu The Lair Troy, NY (for now) Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!apple!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM!jane From: jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM (Jane Beckman x2637) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Materialism Message-ID: <9001161116.AA12349@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM> Date: 16 Jan 90 19:16:10 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 87 Jilara leans back against the wall, stretching out her legs. "I don't know about you guys, but I must be one of the few people here who isn't in a corner. I tend to take the table along the mid-wall to the right. I guess I just don't like corners---make me feel trapped. I don't sit with my back to the door, either, even in Callahan's...paranoids live longer." She sits up and snaps her fingers. "Oh yeah, that's right. I wanted to extend Alaric's greetings to you all. He's unable to get into the Place right now, and is dropping me notes by other means. He might show up as a shadow, now and then. I have some small magics at my disposal..." She gets up and starts to pace, her arms folded behind her back, going six feet one way, six feet the other. Friends call this her "bee dance," and it usually means troubling thoughts are besetting her. "Materialism. Oh yes, I know this one. I have a sister-in-law who's a materialist, and a brother who's not. Unfortunately, she's the strong-willed one... I have come to the ultimate realization that money is only as good as the peace of mind it brings you. I can live very nicely without a lot of things. I can't live without people. And people are the safety net that will keep you going when the money runs out. My friend Stripes...when his money ran out, his friends were what took care of him. He inherited money, earlier this year, and it mostly went away, due to his triple bypass surgery... But the friends stepped in and helped. I was so glad to be taking guitar lessons from him, because I learned so much, and it helped him with survival money. I have a friend with whom I've traded short-term loans to keep the rent paid and food on the table, over the years. We were both so in debt: keeping each other going was a bond we shared, along with the debt worries. I'm soon going to have a small bit of money, a few thousand from an ancient insurance policy of my father's. What am I doing? I'm using it to help people. Paying off some of my debts is immaterial. People have done a lot for me, over time. I want to pass it on." Absently, she bites a knuckle, a bad habit of when she's thinking, and stops by the fireplace, looks at the shimmering fire and glass shards. "Material goods..." She sighs. "I've been accused of being materialistic, for "hoarding old stuff that has no value except sentimental." Not materialism in the conventional sense, is it?" she laughs ruefully. "My sister-in-law attacks me for having the mentality of a museum curator. Maybe I LIKE museums. There are a few things I find it hard to live without, though, like music. What did the Romans say (was it Pliny?) "Sell your bread and buy hyacynths, for bread is food for the body, but hyacynths are food for the soul?" " She laughs ruefully. "I've always said I'm the ultimate materialist; if I love something enough, I'd rather see it in the hands of my worst enemy than not have it exist at all. Is that weird? People say it is." She looks up at a water-stained hunting print on the wall by the fireplace. "Gee, Callahan, that's exactly the sort of thing I'd keep, myself. No real value, but it helps make The Place what it is, know what I mean?" She smiles. "I think Alaric would appreciate what I'm going to say next, were he here. Samurai are supposed to distain money. That doesn't say it doesn't have uses, but you learn not to attach importance to having or not having it. A true samurai, who actually follows bushido (and plenty of them didn't) would come into money and spend it to help some poor family, things like that. He doesn't let these things influence his world-view. I've spent my last nickle, literally, a couple times, to do something for someone who needed some gesture to make them feel better. And never regretted. This is something that I think might have become a major point of contention between myself and my former SO. He was very into success, money, all that sort of thing. He'd grown up in a home with a good deal of money, but no love. I remember when he found out these garnets he'd kept and thought were wonderful were worth about $10 apiece. Suddenly, he didn't think they were so nice at all. (He left them behind when he moved out, too.) I kept wondering if, if I were to become unemployed, he'd start hating me, because I was no longer worth something. He didn't see the correlation. I did..." She sighs again. "Probably a good thing we didn't get married... Funny, though, but I don't think I've ever seen someone made happy by having money, but I've seen a lot of people made absolutely miserable by it. Do I have enough? Will I lose it? Is someone cheating me? Do I have more than so-and-so? It is possible to be happy in poverty; I've known people who are poor but very rich in other things. Having no money, they treasure what matters: fellow humans." She smiles at Callahan knowingly. "And as it ever occurred to you that this bar has the cheapest drinks around?" He blushes. "Uh huh, I thought so. Keep it up, my friend. It makes the Place unique." Callahan gets very busy mopping the bar... ---Jilara the Exile (I hope.) "If I'm not home accepting what I cannot change, I'm out changing what I can't accept." ---Ashleigh Brilliant (alternate identity may be jane@fsdcupt.csd.mot.com---don't you love computers with identity crises?) Path: mit-eddie!mit-amt!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!pt.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!ap1i+ From: ap1i+@andrew.cmu.edu (Andrew C. Plotkin) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Farewell Message-ID: <4ZgtHKa00V4GA47F8Z@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: 16 Jan 90 21:40:38 GMT References: Organization: Class of '92, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 27 In-Reply-To: [this is going both as personal mail and to alt.callahans -- replies by callahanians should be sure they're to appropriate places...] I have a feeling Austin is going to be flooded with replies to his Farewell, but nonetheless.... > Excerpts from netnews.alt.callahans: 15-Jan-90 Farewell Austin H. > Ziegler@bucsf. (1932) > "Since I cannot deal with many ideas presented here in Callahan's > (someone said that suicide *is* an option--this was said just before > Christmas) I do not think that it is valid for me to remain here longer. > I > cannot pay attention with the high volume, and Callahan's has changed > from > its original intent, I believe. It may not be valid to reply in certain ways, but it is *never* invalid to stay at Callahan's. (High traffic, now, I can understand... :-) As to original intent, I don't see that it's changed -- to what are you referring? (Note that the Callahan's *do* describe suicide as an option in some situations.) At any rate, I don't mean to drag you (kicking and screaming) back into the bar. Farewell. --Z Path: mit-eddie!bloom-beacon!shelby!lindy!news From: GE.LJB@forsythe.stanford.edu (Louis J Bookbinder) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: TIME LOOP! Message-ID: <7246@lindy.Stanford.EDU> Date: 17 Jan 90 00:25:27 GMT Sender: news@lindy.Stanford.EDU (News Service) Lines: 13 Nick Chopper clanks in carrying a load of firewood. "Whoops, I done this already! Are we in some sort of time loop? I've just gotten about 20 postings I could SWEAR were posted 2 weeks ago. Maybe a node came up and reposted them thinking they were lost. "Shoot, nothing like this ever happened in Oz!" Like a film slipping out of the advancing ratchets, he flickers in an OTHER direction, and is gone. Nick Chopper - my opinion? dont ax! [B>- GE.LJB@Forsythe.stanford.edu Path: mit-eddie!bloom-beacon!bu.edu!bu-cs!bu-pub!spacey From: spacey@bu-pub.bu.edu (Eva Chan) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: tommi talks again... Message-ID: Date: 17 Jan 90 04:47:05 GMT References: <1990Jan16.033607.6677@granite.cr.bull.com> Sender: news@bu.edu.bu.edu Distribution: alt Organization: Boston University Computer Science Lines: 7 In-reply-to: Mandel@granite.cr.bull.com's message of 16 Jan 90 03:36:07 GMT Silverblack, um, I think I should correct you that Tommi and Tuomas are two different people. Although they are twins. :-) But I believe that your words would be well taken. :-D -- Eva Chan spacey@bu-pub.bu.edu (e-mail is always appreciated) Cheers! And may you enjoy life! Path: mit-eddie!bu.edu!bu-cs!bu-pub!spacey From: spacey@bu-pub.bu.edu (Eva Chan) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Return of the... um... well, I'm back, anyway. Message-ID: Date: 17 Jan 90 04:53:39 GMT References: Sender: news@bu.edu.bu.edu Distribution: alt Organization: Boston University Computer Science Lines: 11 In-reply-to: ckd@bu-pub.bu.edu's message of 16 Jan 90 10:58:42 GMT The bunny peeks into the tavern from the doorway and spies ckd and smiles. "Welcome back aboard! Too bad I havent seen you much lately, but perhaps this semester!" Then the pair of floppy ears disappears from the doorway. Most likely to her next class! :-) -- Eva Chan spacey@bu-pub.bu.edu (e-mail is always appreciated) Cheers! And may you enjoy life! Path: mit-eddie!bu.edu!bu-cs!bucsf!gilly From: gilly@bucsf.bu.edu (Gilly Rosenthol) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: re: Empaths Message-ID: Date: 17 Jan 90 17:18:53 GMT Sender: news@bu.edu.bu.edu Reply-To: gilly@bucsf.bu.edu (Gilly Rosenthol) Distribution: alt Organization: Boston University Lines: 74 Gilly, wearing her Winnie-the-Pooh jeans (Winnie on one leg, Eeyore on the other - my little sister painted them for me), a worn black sweatshirt, and a *warm* pair of hiking boots (nasty glare at people in warm climates ;-), stands up from the corner where she has frantically been trying to catch up on the 224 messages that she missed over break. She has been mentally composing a few postings over break, but they will be written eventually. Right now, a conversation has come up that she has been thinking about for a while. "I was accorded the great honor," she says, "of being included on the Empath's mailing list." She sketches a quick bow in the direction of that table, then turns away. "And I have felt like a fraud for it ever since. *I am not an empath*. For the sake of communication, let me clarify my definition of an empath - I think it is one who can 'read' emotions, as telepaths 'read' minds. I wish I had this talent. I want to be a psychologist, and I'm scared stiff that I won't be any good. Sure, I care, and that's important. But I can't help if I don't know what's wrong, and I often don't." She looks around the room at all her old friends, all the people who have come in in her absence, all the lurkers - taking everyone in. "Dani said he can appreciate what causes people's hurts, and how it feels, but that that doesn't mean that he necessarily cares, just that he understands. Well, I care about all of you. But that doesn't mean I *understand* all of you, or know how you feel. I care terribly about Jilara - but I have had a very happy, innocent life. How can I possibly really know how she feels? I am very happy to be friends with the Tabbifli - but I can't know how it feels to have a family like hers. I can't know how it feels to have a wife leave me, or a sister die. Is caring enough? I don't know, but it's all I can do for now." Gilly shakes her head ruefully. "I'm rambling again. I'm not quite sure what my point was meant to be anymore. But I do feel better for having finally said how I feel." She collects a drink from Mike and drains the glass. "Anyway, here's to caring, and to trying to learn more." She smiles at the sound of the glass crashing against the fireplace. "God, I missed that sound!" ************************* To everyone who sent me mail - answers are coming, I just need to catch up a bit first. Hugs and warm fuzzies to Diana, Jilara, Moonchilde, Tabbifli, Taldin, and too many others to mention. (Okay, the real reason is that I have a mind like a steel trap - everything that goes in get crushed and mangled - and those are the ones that come to mind right now. Sorry!) Something that occurred to me over vacation, while watching Cheers. I used to listen to that theme song - you know, "Sometimes you want to go where everybody knows your name, and they're always glad you came. You want to be where you can see that troubles are all the same. You want to go where everybody knows your name" or close, anyway. I used to listen to that and think wistfully about how nice it would be to have a place like that to go to. And then I realized, now I do! This is the only newsgroup that I really feel that I'm a part of. And for the shy little bookworm who used to hide in corners to avoid being made fun of, really belonging is the most wonderful feeling I've had in a long time. So thanks to Chris for making this group, and to everyone here for making it the wonderful group it is, and for letting me be a part of it. Have you ever noticed that my afterthoughts are often longer than my postings? -- +--------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+ | Gilly Rosenthol |"Don't dream it, be it" -The Rocky Horror Picture Show | | gilly@bucsb.bu.edu |"On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. | | | L'essentiel est invisible aux yeux." -Le Petit Prince | +--------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+ -- +--------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+ | Gilly Rosenthol |"Don't dream it, be it" -The Rocky Horror Picture Show | | gilly@bucsb.bu.edu |"On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. | | | L'essentiel est invisible aux yeux." -Le Petit Prince | +--------------------+-------------------------------------------------------+