Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!yale!cs.utexas.edu!usc!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hplred!egly From: egly@hplred.HP.COM (Diana Egly) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: The Woman Beside Message-ID: <20940031@hplred.HP.COM> Date: 19 Jan 90 18:39:06 GMT References: <9001151717.AA03010@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM> Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA Lines: 61 / hplred:alt.callahans / jason@hpcndm.CND.HP.COM (Jason Zions) / 5:56 pm Jan 17, 1990 / A muffled voice from one of the many corners is heard: Lucretia Mott. Do you know who she was? If not run to your encyclopedia and read a bit. Have you ever heard of her husband? I thought not. He has no other fame -- other than being her husband. James Mott was a man who rode behind. Lucretia had a frail body along with her strong convictions and he insured that her physical needs were cared for so that she could do her mighty work. He beleived in what she did. He was a man who rides behind. From what I've read, it isn't that he lacked vision. He had a clear vision of the Path and he saw that the best work he could do to bring about the end of slavery and to bring about women's rights was to enable Lucretia to speak and to act. He saw his role as being one of nurturer. We don't talk much about such men. They don't appear as heroes in our fiction like the woman behind does. If I said that my SO was a man who rode behind me, what would you think of him? That he's weak? Unmotivated? Effeminate? He's been called all of those things. I've tried equal relationships -- both riding according to our vision, side by side. It works for a while. It works until one sees a new dream beaconing on the horizon -- a dream that is not shared. Or a nuance to the shared vision that only one can or should act on. When that happens... Do you ask that your partner give up that dream? Would you give up the dream yourself? Would you ask that your partner follow your dream? Even when it is not the Calling of your partner? For me the answer has always been to part company, hoping that our paths may someday rejoin. It doesn't always happen that the paths join up again. Altering your path so that it is more likely that they do seems to me to be the same as choosing to ride behind the other person. I would not be pleased if a partner riding by my side made that kind of choice. Because I would see it for what it is. A betrayal of their vision, of their path, of their dream. I would not destroy another person in that way. So now I find myself in a much different sort of relationship. Not one that I would have imagined for myself. It's not two people sharing a single life. That would not work. It's... I can't find the right metaphor. It's more like finding someone waiting at home, someone who's been living his own life, when I'm tired and in need of comfort. Isn't that what the one who remains behind does? Diana egly@hplabs.hp.com Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!think!bbn!usc!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hplred!egly From: egly@hplred.HP.COM (Diana Egly) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: A lurker with a problem Message-ID: <20940032@hplred.HP.COM> Date: 19 Jan 90 19:25:28 GMT References: <427@unicorn.WWU.EDU> Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA Lines: 39 How large is Bellingham? I grew up outside of a small town. Prying into the lives of neighbors was epidemic, and gossip and disapproval was rampant. It may not be just his older clientel who would be offended. He probably understands the mood and limits of tolerance of the town pretty well. Do you? Is there a reason that you chose to confront the social conventions of this community? Given that you see your relationship as being like marriage, what reasons do you have for not marrying? There are all likes of reasons that two people don't marry. Some have principled objections to the institution of marriage as it is practiced in this society. Some have objections to some of the legal (and tax) ramifications of marriage. If this is the case for you, then all I can say is what I tell Friends who choose some form of civil disobedience. Be prepared to pay a price for acting on your principles. I've yet to see anyone who didn't pay some kind of a price. It doesn't mean that I like it that this happens; I just acknowledge that it does. It doesn't mean that I don't try to help the people who suffer for their principles. Sometimes I even help prepare in advance for what is most likely to happen. Principles -- dearly held principles -- are worth it. Telling you that this job is a price you may have to pay is cold comfort at best. And I realize that. However sorry I may be that the world has slapped you down in this situation, I can't change the way the world works. Or at least I can't change it overnight 8-). If it isn't that you have objections to marriage per sec, then why don't the two of you marry? It would be an expedient solution to your situation. Couples who aren't married -- who aren't ready to be married -- have their reasons. Usually good ones. And I don't intend to ask about your reasons. But it is precisely those reasons, those issues and considerations, that distinguish what an unmarried couple has from a marriage. Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!CCB.UCSF.EDU!robin From: robin@CCB.UCSF.EDU (Robin Colgrove) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: boston gettogether plan Message-ID: <9001201814.AA19399@ccb.ucsf.EDU> Date: 20 Jan 90 18:14:19 GMT Sender: daemon@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU Lines: 18 OK last post preflight tentative plan for callahans.gettogether in the interest of simplicity let's just say ('less someone's got some rapid compelling reasons not to) CALLAHANIANS MEETING TUE 1/23 8PM CROSSROADS ON BEACON BE THERE OR BE NON-EMPATHIC.. seeya!? robin Path: mit-eddie!snorkelwacker!apple!brutus.cs.uiuc.edu!usc!bbn!granite!mandel From: mandel@granite.cr.bull.com (Mark Mandel) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: boston gettogether plan Message-ID: <1990Jan20.210053.9602@granite.cr.bull.com> Date: 20 Jan 90 21:00:53 GMT References: <9001201814.AA19399@ccb.ucsf.EDU> Reply-To: mandel@granite.cr.bull.com (Mark Mandel) Organization: Bull HN Information Systems Inc. Lines: 15 In article <9001201814.AA19399@ccb.ucsf.EDU> robin@CCB.UCSF.EDU (Robin Colgrove) writes: >CALLAHANIANS MEETING > ... >BE THERE >OR BE NON-EMPATHIC.. ... or just plain unable, alas. (Silverblack walks out the door for now, as a subTeenage Mutant Ninja Turtle tugs at his pants leg, an elf with a longbow slung across her back looks accusingly from just beyond the doorway, and a Cheshire cat sitting above the lintel sighs.) -- -- Mark Mandel (InterNet: Mandel@granite.cr.bull.com) /* My employer is not responsible for anything I say, do, think, or eat. */ Path: mit-eddie!bu.edu!bu-cs!bu-pub.bu.edu!ckd From: ckd@bu-pub.bu.edu (Christopher Davis) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: Lyrics, 1990 Message-ID: Date: 20 Jan 90 22:00:16 GMT References: <4818cdfe.1faaa@ferrari.UUCP> <9060010@hpfcso.HP.COM> Sender: news@bu.edu.bu.edu Reply-To: ckd@bu-pub.bu.edu (Christopher Davis) Organization: Boston University School of Management Lines: 17 In-reply-to: daq@hpfcso.HP.COM's message of 19 Jan 90 01:15:08 GMT >>>>> On 19 Jan 90 01:15:08 GMT, daq@hpfcso.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) said: > Like the Nike commercial says, "Just do it." The question is... Does Bo know Netnews? :-) --Chris Yours for a bit of stupid humor -- Christopher Davis, BU SMG '90 "Many verbal attacks are part of someone's aim to establish their rank in a dominance hierarchy, the same sort of behavior common among nesting fowl." --Daniel Mocsny Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!usc!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hpfcso!daq From: daq@hpfcso.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: The Woman Beside Message-ID: <9060011@hpfcso.HP.COM> Date: 20 Jan 90 05:00:47 GMT References: <9001151717.AA03010@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM> Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA Lines: 63 >I'm sorry you're so bitter about relationships and marriage. I have >to guess you've been badly burned, perhaps by relationships other than >your own (parents', perhaps; I'm not asking, just thinking aloud). He >who has no one at his back has to have eyes in the back of his head to >feel safe; and then, what when he must sleep? There IS no safety this >side the grave. Why are you sorry? There are many ways to live a life. I could just as easily say that I am sorry you are married. There is no need to feel sympathy for me. I am comfortable, well fed, and adequately entertained. I suppose I am somewhat negative about relationships, but it has not come from getting burned so much as the realization that real strength must come from within. Shared strength is always vulnerable to the loss of the sharer or through betrayal by the sharer. I have merely chosen to concentrate on personal strength. I have chosen not to sell myself into the endless slavery of compromise brought on by serious relationships. I used to spend a good deal of energy on relationships. I got tired of it. Now, that does not mean that I am incapable of friendships and closeness, it just means that I keep it under control. But golly, if that special someone comes along ... >My lady and I don't expect 100% compatibility. (Also remember what >Janelle said about compatibility; net timewarps being what they are, >you may be reading this before you read her observations.) But being >together, with its compromises, disagreements, and choices, is much, >much better for both of us than being alone. We lean on each other. >We enrich each other. Yes, 100% compatability is a fantasy and is not achievable. I understand perfectly that people can gain from relationships, and I am happy for you just as you are sorry for me. >Cynic, there are always choices to make, giving up some things to get >others. The solo way is not the only way, and many of us find the >road immeasurably more bearable, even *good*, with a companion. Indeed and agreed. Solitude is my choice, and my original post merely stated, in my usual unsubtle style, that marraig steals friends form me, and I do not like it. >No toast this time. (Up to the bar.) Mike, a decaf coffee please, >with milk. You know, I have always sort of wondered what the point of decaf coffee is. -- > -- Mark Mandel (InterNet: Mandel@granite.cr.bull.com) Cynic Many ways to pass the days Many lights to fill the nights Many paths to lead the feet Many years until we meet Christ, poetry sucks! Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!usc!ucsd!ucsdhub!hp-sdd!hplabs!hpfcso!daq From: daq@hpfcso.HP.COM (Doug Quarnstrom) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: WAR Message-ID: <9060012@hpfcso.HP.COM> Date: 20 Jan 90 05:21:09 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA Lines: 56 The nineties dawn with new freedom for Europe, the possible reunification of Germany, and the likely end of the Nato and Warsaw pact alliances. Does this mean peace, love, and harmony for the earth? Is everything going to be hunky dory? Is it peace in our time, the end of war? Anyone who answered yes to any of these questions, go to the back of the class. Why do I say this? Well, first, war is a part of human nature, and I do not believe that human nature really changes over time. Second, war is popular. Reagan gained on popularity after the invasion of Grenada and the raid on Libya. Bush's popularity has soared after Panama. Thatcher did quite well after the defense of the Falklands, and even Galtieri was vastly popular for the invasion of the Falklands, until he lost the war, of course. Third, I am one of the minority who thinks that the world political situation is less stable than it was last year at this time. China is politically isolated. Russia could dissolve on civil war. Eourope is, once again, composed of a large number of small, possibly unstable, and vulnerable countries, which soon may have no mutual defense treaties with the superpowers. Now, WW2 started when it becam clear to Hitler that the powers that be did not have the backbone to stand up to him while he quietly gobbled up his minor neighbors. He honestly thought that they would NEVER stand up to him. This miscalculation cost the lives of over 70,000,000 people. Now, I am not saying that this scenario will happen again. It is difficult to believe that the US and USSR would stand by while a warlord absorbed minor countries, but it is not impossible. Political will is a difficult thing to predict, and war seems to reach out and surprise us in ways that we do not forsee. Regardless of the scenario, the political chaos in the world, combined with the proliferation of nuclear, chemical, biological, and conventional weapons to possibly unstable second and third world nations means that we really cannot drop our guard just because the big bugaboo of the Soviet Union is gone. The likelihood of war may not have gone up in the last year or so, but they CERTAINLY have not gone down much. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Cynic Path: mit-eddie!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!marque!lakesys!davek From: davek@lakesys.lakesys.com (Dave Kraft) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Boston gathering Keywords: Boston gathering Message-ID: <1593@lakesys.lakesys.com> Date: 21 Jan 90 04:41:06 GMT Organization: Lake Systems - Milwaukee, Wisconsin Lines: 31 Hi, Sorry, I can't make it to the gathering in Boston.. For a number of reasons, actually.. the main one is no cash. I have an Idea (I don't know why I didn't think of this before).. There is a rather nice system here in the Milwaukee area called Online Data Systems. It is a multi-line bbs with a teleconference. It also has a number of bullitn boards (called SIGs) on a variety of topics. Most of the users on this board are very well behaved. I am on this board quite often, and go by the userid of Davek, so, if you ever call, look for me, most likely, I will be there. Here's the info: Online Data Systems (ODS): phone #: (414)282-9660 (12 lines, 2 newuser/guest lines, if this is busy, try (414)282-1986) baud rates: 300-2400 hours: 24 hours/day, 365 days a year Note: I beleive that it is PC-Pursuit/Starlink-able. Or, if you wish to contact me voice, I am available at (414)476-2763 or (414)771-5178 (This is the line that the modem is tied to, so, this will be usually busy) Dave -- davek@lakesys.lakesys.com uunet!marque!lakesys!davek ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Empathy is sort of like telepathy's kid brother" -- taken from "Stardance" by Spider and Jeanne Robinson Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!yale!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wuarchive!psuvax1!psuvm!emd101 From: EMD101@PSUVM.BITNET Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: Re: The Woman Beside Message-ID: <90020.234601EMD101@PSUVM.BITNET> Date: 21 Jan 90 04:46:01 GMT References: <9001151717.AA03010@fsdcupt.csd.mot.COM> Organization: Penn State University Lines: 35 A short girl with blue socks on cocks her head and gets up and says she wants to talk about being Beside. "I don't understand some of this about the Woman Beside so I want to talk about _my_ riding." She sips her drink a thoughtful last time and sets it down. "My boyfriend and I are following a path. We picked a signpost labeled 'grad school: this way to apply' and started off. We calculate a one in four chance of not encountering another fork but there's no telling until we see it, so why sit sad? "I like to ride right along the creek and watch water sparkle on the rocks and talk to trees and look for places for drinking lemonade in. My boyfriend likes to ride right on the flat track and race the other horses and then come round to catch up with me, grinning and eating Doritos. "We both stop at the used book stores. "We spend a lot of time riding together in the grassy parts too. Sometimes when it rains I ramble like a stupid bird about how neat the lightning is and how great the wind smells and how cool rain is and it drives him crazy. Or my boyfriend complains about how wet water always seems to be, and says maybe he'll just stop at the first pizza place we come to and stay there all week and I am exasperated. But after a while the rain stops and I can start to talk about how great the sunlight is and he can say he forgot his shades. Or maybe we are quiet. We're not subserviant and we're not sad. We get to camp at night and watch the fire together and read the books we bought that day. I guess our lives are easy (even though we have a sore bum sometimes too). But this is why I don't understand about the Women Beside. Maybe my boyfriend and I are the People With." The girl stops talking to you now. She gets her shoes from under the table and picks up her book and heads out to have some pizza with her boyfriend. Path: mit-eddie!mintaka!oliveb!apple!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!uwvax!sabertooth.cs.wisc.edu!lewandow From: lewandow@sabertooth.cs.wisc.edu (Gary Lewandowski (TA of Doom)) Newsgroups: alt.callahans Subject: It's just a silly story Message-ID: <9582@spool.cs.wisc.edu> Date: 21 Jan 90 21:47:03 GMT References: <9084@ttidca.TTI.COM> <9560@spool.cs.wisc.edu> Sender: news@spool.cs.wisc.edu Distribution: alt Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Department Lines: 41 Into Callahans I come, with a smile and a mindless story: One day I was standing on a street corner, minding my own business and sucking on a nice piece of candy. Suddenly a huge plot device was falling down from the top of the building. Noticing the rather large shadow it cast, I first thought it was a large storm system, and so I pulled out my umbrella. Having opened it, I looked up to the sky. Lucky for me the building was a very tall one, and I had time to step out of the way. Alas, I stepped into a huge plot hole. Suddenly I was falling, falling, falling, falling. Well, anyway I was descending rapidly into the abyss, my umbrella slowing me only a tiny bit. Was this the end? (Are you kidding?) No. Thinking quickly, I pulled the candy out of my mouth, knowing that candy gets quite sticky. I reached out and touched the side of the hole. The candy stuck and I suffered only a minor shoulder separation from the sudden stop. Holding on to the candy with one hand, I popped another piece into my mouth, releasing its stickiness as well. Using my two pieces of candy, I pulled myself up, inch by inch up the side of the hole. Thinking I was at last safe, I started to walk off (with both pieces of candy in my mouth -- nah just kidding) and tripped over a hidden plot line. [What happened next? It's up to you. If we get enough extensions to the story I'll post the composite silliness in awhile. And if no one adds to it, it'll die a silly death.] This interlude into silliness was brought to you by -- gary lewandow@cs.wisc.edu "A before B except after C, in which case we're going in reverse"